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The job market is a marketplace. Workers have a right to say no, employers have a right to hire someone else... so ask your employer in plain english what is ex

The job market is a marketplace. Workers have a right to say no, employers have a right to hire someone else... so ask your employer in plain english what is expected from you and should they deviate from that, go somewhere else. If someone is willing to work under those conditions, that's their prerogative. This nation is at full employment, hiring good people is increasingly difficult, it's hard to make the case workers don't have options. They do and so do you. Salaries are increasing at an incredible rate, seems reasonable to me that expectations are changing along with them. Maybe the compromise is taking a lower salary or changing companies. Compromises have to be made...

gffrd 4y ago
I came here to say this: you are treated how you allow yourself to be treated. If you're working too much, do something about it. You have power. Very, very worst case scenario: you get fired. So what? It's a job. There are literally millions of them. Like OP said: you'd probably get a better job right now any way. Companies are tripping over themselves to acquire talent. If you're allowing yourself to be overworked, that's your choice.
- greedo 4y ago
  The amount of privilege in this comment is amazing. Not everyone has an in-demand IT career. Some people are new to the work force, some are old and exposed to ageism. Some are non-binary, some are women, some are minorities. Some are poor. Some can't work remote, some need special accommodations due to disability, some can't afford the costs of relocating.
  - gffrd 4y ago
    Is privilege bad? Does anyone get anything without demanding it? To my knowledge, nothing has ever happened without someone saying “enough is enough” and walking out the door. Also, I never said anything about IT.
    - greedo 4y ago
      Assuming everyone has the same privileges is how we end up with companies taking advantage of employees. Businesses know that the friction of job-hunting limits how many people will leave a company when they only get a 2% raise. They know that employees don't like to uproot their families to move across country for a new job. They know that if they continue to indoctrinate employees with the idea that discussing salary is bad, it helps keep wages down. They know that pushing for uncompensated overtime for salaried employees is rarely ever resisted. They know the power dynamic between employers and employees is almost always skewed dramatically in their favor. They know that promoting myths like Horatio Alger, and "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" reinforces the idea that the only thing holding people back is their lack of work ethic. As George Carlin said, "It's a big club and you ain't in it!"
  - gffrd 4y ago
    Wanted to also add: it’s crazy that we even need to have this discussion. There’s way too much pressure on individuals, too little social and institutional support, and too much free rein given to companies … which they’ve proven they’ll abuse. There must be more for individual employees to stand upon, and then the “you’re treated how you allow yourself to be treated” really means something to many …
hindsightRegret 4y ago
I see this argument come up all the time. However, the job market in general and especially in America is terribly inefficient. The vast majority of Americans work paycheck-to-paycheck and are tied down to their geographic location (family, children, housing). There isn't really a social safety net (by design, I think) in America for employees who voluntarily quit their jobs. So lots of people are stuck in jobs they hate, getting paid less than they deserve, and are a poor match for their skills. There are still lots of jobs that don't have the luxury of entirely virtual interview processes. Over time, I do hope the job market gets more and more liquid for candidates.
- hindsightRegret 4y ago
  The Great Resignation was a step in the right direction.
  - tick_tock_tick 4y ago
    I'm still waiting for proof it was anything more then people changing jobs or taking time off when they got stimulus checks. I really doubt anything is coming of it at this rate let alone "societal" changes.
    - lamontcg 4y ago
      Well COVID killed a bunch of people and disabled a bunch more, so those people dropped out of the workforce. There's also the fact that Baby Boomers are retiring. That means that economy right now wants more workers than are available which puts pricing power in the hands of employees. And the idea that you should job hop to get higher wages and that employee loyalty to employers is for suckers has trickled all the way down and people are talking about it and there's a noticeable uptick in unionization drives. The idea that everyone just up and quit is probably not correct at all, but I don't think its accurate to say that the environment isn't looking any different from the past ~30ish years. I think the Fed is about to stomp the shit out of all of it though.
      - 4y ago
greedo 4y ago
The problem is that expectations are vague, and usually lean towards benefitting the employer not then employee. Take "unlimited PTO." That sounds great, but it's a terrible deal for the employees.
- genewitch 4y ago
  Do they cap the PTO at 10 days per year, and degrade your bonuses so that it's fair to other users of PTO?

gffrd 4y ago

I came here to say this: you are treated how you allow yourself to be treated. If you're working too much, do something about it. You have power. Very, very worst case scenario: you get fired. So what? It's a job. There are literally millions of them. Like OP said: you'd probably get a better job right now any way. Companies are tripping over themselves to acquire talent. If you're allowing yourself to be overworked, that's your choice.

greedo 4y ago
The amount of privilege in this comment is amazing. Not everyone has an in-demand IT career. Some people are new to the work force, some are old and exposed to ageism. Some are non-binary, some are women, some are minorities. Some are poor. Some can't work remote, some need special accommodations due to disability, some can't afford the costs of relocating.
- gffrd 4y ago
  Is privilege bad? Does anyone get anything without demanding it? To my knowledge, nothing has ever happened without someone saying “enough is enough” and walking out the door. Also, I never said anything about IT.
  - greedo 4y ago
    Assuming everyone has the same privileges is how we end up with companies taking advantage of employees. Businesses know that the friction of job-hunting limits how many people will leave a company when they only get a 2% raise. They know that employees don't like to uproot their families to move across country for a new job. They know that if they continue to indoctrinate employees with the idea that discussing salary is bad, it helps keep wages down. They know that pushing for uncompensated overtime for salaried employees is rarely ever resisted. They know the power dynamic between employers and employees is almost always skewed dramatically in their favor. They know that promoting myths like Horatio Alger, and "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" reinforces the idea that the only thing holding people back is their lack of work ethic. As George Carlin said, "It's a big club and you ain't in it!"
- gffrd 4y ago
  Wanted to also add: it’s crazy that we even need to have this discussion. There’s way too much pressure on individuals, too little social and institutional support, and too much free rein given to companies … which they’ve proven they’ll abuse. There must be more for individual employees to stand upon, and then the “you’re treated how you allow yourself to be treated” really means something to many …

hindsightRegret 4y ago

I see this argument come up all the time. However, the job market in general and especially in America is terribly inefficient. The vast majority of Americans work paycheck-to-paycheck and are tied down to their geographic location (family, children, housing). There isn't really a social safety net (by design, I think) in America for employees who voluntarily quit their jobs. So lots of people are stuck in jobs they hate, getting paid less than they deserve, and are a poor match for their skills. There are still lots of jobs that don't have the luxury of entirely virtual interview processes. Over time, I do hope the job market gets more and more liquid for candidates.

hindsightRegret 4y ago
The Great Resignation was a step in the right direction.
- tick_tock_tick 4y ago
  I'm still waiting for proof it was anything more then people changing jobs or taking time off when they got stimulus checks. I really doubt anything is coming of it at this rate let alone "societal" changes.
  - lamontcg 4y ago
    Well COVID killed a bunch of people and disabled a bunch more, so those people dropped out of the workforce. There's also the fact that Baby Boomers are retiring. That means that economy right now wants more workers than are available which puts pricing power in the hands of employees. And the idea that you should job hop to get higher wages and that employee loyalty to employers is for suckers has trickled all the way down and people are talking about it and there's a noticeable uptick in unionization drives. The idea that everyone just up and quit is probably not correct at all, but I don't think its accurate to say that the environment isn't looking any different from the past ~30ish years. I think the Fed is about to stomp the shit out of all of it though.
    - 4y ago

greedo 4y ago

The problem is that expectations are vague, and usually lean towards benefitting the employer not then employee. Take "unlimited PTO." That sounds great, but it's a terrible deal for the employees.

genewitch 4y ago
Do they cap the PTO at 10 days per year, and degrade your bonuses so that it's fair to other users of PTO?