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Apple's limited success is not only a factor of the screen size but also market positioning. The mini is inferior in some specs to other iPhones but at the same

Apple's limited success is not only a factor of the screen size but also market positioning. The mini is inferior in some specs to other iPhones but at the same time really high end as far as mobiles in general go. That makes it a niche product even if screen size was not a factor at all. It targets people that have plenty of cash for a flagship but are willing to forego the top tier specs for a smaller size. Apple prefers you just buy the pro. And if you don't have much cash you can get the reheated 2017 iphone 8 with SE slapped on it :) I bet if they made a mini T the price of an SE with a more limited camera and screen spec than the current mini it would take 50% of SE sales away. You can't judge the market viability of one aspect based on a single model.

hedgehog 4y ago
Even the small phone user base is probably fragmented between people who want a lower cost phone and people like me that want the Pro or better, just smaller.
- 8ytecoder 4y ago
  Apple already has the SE for the low cost market. They have positioned the mini as the mid-range. What they're missing is a high-end small phone. I'd happily pay for it.
  - 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
    iPhone 13 mini. Having said that, the specs of the SE are nothing to sneeze at.
    - hedgehog 4y ago
      It doesn't have the full camera. Edit: I'm not sure what the disagreement is but it's objectively verifiable that the 13 Mini does not have the same camera setup as the 13 Pro.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - derefr 4y ago
    The current SE isn't a small phone; it's a previous-era-of-design phone. It's a phone from before phones gave you as much screen as would fit on the front face of the body. If you want that, you can just buy any new-old-stock phone from 5 years ago; they're all cheap, they're all that size, and they're all (IMHO) painful to read or watch anything on. A low-cost small phone would be the opposite of the SE: not good-specs, bad-screen; but rather all-screen, bad-specs. An iPhone Mini minus-minus.
    - GekkePrutser 4y ago
      Agreed, I think this is not only for the reason of cheap manufacturing (I doubt it's a lot cheaper than just reusing the iPhone XR case). I think it's just a conscious disincentivisation (word?) from Apple to avoid cannibalising their mainline models :) I'm surprised it's so popular, because I really don't miss the bezel. All-screen phones are a great advancement. If I had an iPhone I would seriously miss the fingerprint scanner but this is not an issue on Android, the in-screen option works amazingly well.
alwillis 4y ago
The mini is inferior in some specs to other iPhones I’m typing this on my iPhone 13 mini; saying it’s inferior to the rest of the iPhone 13 is an overstatement. All of the core features are the same as they rest of the line. Ironically it’s the largest iPhone I’ve owned, having upgraded from an iPhone 7 and a 6s before that. There probably won’t be iPhone 14 mini, so I’m glad I was able to get this form factor before I had no choice.
- reflexco 4y ago
  They really had the room to put a x2 zoom camera on there though... what a shame they didn't.
  - thefourthchime 4y ago
    The biggest issue for me is the battery. The first mini had horrible battery life, I know the 13 is better. The fact is I'm spoiled rotten with the Pro battery life and don't see the size winning me over.
    - yowzadave 4y ago
      Same—I just bought a new iPhone…I thought the mini was right for me, but after three days of using it, it was clear that the battery life was worse than my years-old Pro. So I returned it and got the Pro instead. The other challenge was that I found it hard to go back to the smaller onscreen keyboard and display. I think I was deluded about my vision being as good as it was 10 years ago!
      - GekkePrutser 4y ago
        Try swipe typing, it really helps make small screens a lot more comfortable for me. I have one tiny Android phone with 2.5" display and it actually makes that one usable.
- Wowfunhappy 4y ago
  Wait, is the iPhone Mini larger than an iPhone 6/7/8?! I thought it was smaller.
nicoburns 4y ago
> The mini is inferior in some specs to other iPhones but at the same time really high end as far as mobiles in general go. That makes it a niche product even if screen size was not a factor at all. I feel like it being smaller is a factor in it having inferior specs: much easier to fit a better camera etc into a larger body.
zippergz 4y ago
Indeed, I desperately want a smaller phone, but I heavily use the camera on my phone and in the end I decided I wasn't willing to give up camera quality for the iPhone Mini. So Apple's data may suggest that I don't want a small phone, but the reality is that I want a small phone that's actually as good as the big ones. No one has offered that.
- bigiain 4y ago
  My last couple of phone purchases have actually been camera purchases. I got an iPhone XR for the low light performance of the camera, not because I needed a new phone. I got a 13Pro for the cameras and lidar, not because I needed a new phone. My reality is I want a great camera that fits in my pocket and is durable - that also makes calls, runs Signal, streams Spotify/AppleMusic, and has a usable web browser...
  - toqy 4y ago
    Same, I went from original SE to 11 pro max because of camera envy. Maybe once all of my kids are a bit older I won't care as much about the camera though.

hedgehog 4y ago

Even the small phone user base is probably fragmented between people who want a lower cost phone and people like me that want the Pro or better, just smaller.

8ytecoder 4y ago
Apple already has the SE for the low cost market. They have positioned the mini as the mid-range. What they're missing is a high-end small phone. I'd happily pay for it.
- 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
  iPhone 13 mini. Having said that, the specs of the SE are nothing to sneeze at.
  - hedgehog 4y ago
    It doesn't have the full camera. Edit: I'm not sure what the disagreement is but it's objectively verifiable that the 13 Mini does not have the same camera setup as the 13 Pro.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- derefr 4y ago
  The current SE isn't a small phone; it's a previous-era-of-design phone. It's a phone from before phones gave you as much screen as would fit on the front face of the body. If you want that, you can just buy any new-old-stock phone from 5 years ago; they're all cheap, they're all that size, and they're all (IMHO) painful to read or watch anything on. A low-cost small phone would be the opposite of the SE: not good-specs, bad-screen; but rather all-screen, bad-specs. An iPhone Mini minus-minus.
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    Agreed, I think this is not only for the reason of cheap manufacturing (I doubt it's a lot cheaper than just reusing the iPhone XR case). I think it's just a conscious disincentivisation (word?) from Apple to avoid cannibalising their mainline models :) I'm surprised it's so popular, because I really don't miss the bezel. All-screen phones are a great advancement. If I had an iPhone I would seriously miss the fingerprint scanner but this is not an issue on Android, the in-screen option works amazingly well.

alwillis 4y ago

The mini is inferior in some specs to other iPhones I’m typing this on my iPhone 13 mini; saying it’s inferior to the rest of the iPhone 13 is an overstatement. All of the core features are the same as they rest of the line. Ironically it’s the largest iPhone I’ve owned, having upgraded from an iPhone 7 and a 6s before that. There probably won’t be iPhone 14 mini, so I’m glad I was able to get this form factor before I had no choice.

reflexco 4y ago
They really had the room to put a x2 zoom camera on there though... what a shame they didn't.
- thefourthchime 4y ago
  The biggest issue for me is the battery. The first mini had horrible battery life, I know the 13 is better. The fact is I'm spoiled rotten with the Pro battery life and don't see the size winning me over.
  - yowzadave 4y ago
    Same—I just bought a new iPhone…I thought the mini was right for me, but after three days of using it, it was clear that the battery life was worse than my years-old Pro. So I returned it and got the Pro instead. The other challenge was that I found it hard to go back to the smaller onscreen keyboard and display. I think I was deluded about my vision being as good as it was 10 years ago!
    - GekkePrutser 4y ago
      Try swipe typing, it really helps make small screens a lot more comfortable for me. I have one tiny Android phone with 2.5" display and it actually makes that one usable.
Wowfunhappy 4y ago
Wait, is the iPhone Mini larger than an iPhone 6/7/8?! I thought it was smaller.

nicoburns 4y ago

> The mini is inferior in some specs to other iPhones but at the same time really high end as far as mobiles in general go. That makes it a niche product even if screen size was not a factor at all. I feel like it being smaller is a factor in it having inferior specs: much easier to fit a better camera etc into a larger body.

zippergz 4y ago

Indeed, I desperately want a smaller phone, but I heavily use the camera on my phone and in the end I decided I wasn't willing to give up camera quality for the iPhone Mini. So Apple's data may suggest that I don't want a small phone, but the reality is that I want a small phone that's actually as good as the big ones. No one has offered that.

bigiain 4y ago
My last couple of phone purchases have actually been camera purchases. I got an iPhone XR for the low light performance of the camera, not because I needed a new phone. I got a 13Pro for the cameras and lidar, not because I needed a new phone. My reality is I want a great camera that fits in my pocket and is durable - that also makes calls, runs Signal, streams Spotify/AppleMusic, and has a usable web browser...
- toqy 4y ago
  Same, I went from original SE to 11 pro max because of camera envy. Maybe once all of my kids are a bit older I won't care as much about the camera though.