4 ms·

I love the intent and actions behind this post. Finding an unfair bug mid-tournament is serious, and it takes courage and integrity on the part of the technical

by sdwr 4y ago

I love the intent and actions behind this post. Finding an unfair bug mid-tournament is serious, and it takes courage and integrity on the part of the technical team to -listen to the players -investigate past what your own analytics are saying -find and fix the bug under time pressure -and disclose the (potentially embarrassing!) initial mistake I think the article itself could have been worded better though. It didnt feel very clear. As a reader, I want to know what went wrong, how it was handled, and feel confident that you are on top of the issue. All the stuff about "why we chose our network topography" reads as details at best, justification/excuses at worst.

bigcat12345678 4y ago
Yep, look at what Valve is doing to dota 2...
- gverrilla 4y ago
  would you care to elaborate? I didn't play dota in a few years
  - bigcat12345678 4y ago
    I don't have a close observation either. I have read r/dota2 regularly, and the laziness of Valve just popped fairly often. Things like items promised got delayed and buyers actually forgot them, serious bug in TI (https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/9aexks/a_morphling_bug_that_possibly_changed_the_result/ https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/9aexks/a_morphling_b...) etc.
DantesKite 4y ago
The technical team acted honorably, but the upper stewardship at Riot games behaved horrendously. They sacrificed the competitive integrity of their sport because they didn't want to exclude RNG from the tournament, because they wanted the audience of the Chinese market. This article goes into more detail, giving a larger context for why this situation shouldn't have never happened in the first place. https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/17207/montecristo-its-embarrassing-the-level-of-competitive-integrity-thats-been-sacrificed-for-msi-2022 https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/17207/montecristo-its-e...
- colinmhayes 4y ago
  > because they wanted the audience of the Chinese market. Or maybe because the tournament would've been shit without them? Who wants to watch an international tournament with only 1 of the clearly top 2 regions represented? WHole thing would've been a forgone conclusion at that point.
  - DantesKite 4y ago
    Yes, the tournament would have been worse without them. What I'm saying is that does not somehow justify penalizing the other teams and the tournament writ large to "even" the playing field if you value competitive integrity. As the article states, increasing the ping doesn't make it more fair for the other teams because they actually traveled to the event. They're physically there. It only makes it more fair for RNG who can't attend because of Covid restrictions. To paraphrase, it "punishes the teams who are there for a team that isn't." From a business perspective of course, I agree with you. It's definitely better to sacrifice the level of play for viewership (and it does sacrifice the level of play because artificially increasing the ping at a LAN event makes the game worse). But if you're running a competitive eSport and you want a fair sport, it's a terrible decision.
    - colinmhayes 4y ago
      > increasing the ping doesn't make it more fair for the other teams because they actually traveled to the event Can't agree. Those teams had an advantage when playing RNG. Taking away that advantage does actually make the event more fair for them, even though they are being disadvantaged.
      - DantesKite 4y ago
        Could you clarify what you mean by "those teams had an advantage when playing RNG"? I may have missed something. I'm not sure what advantage you're referring to.
        4y ago

by sdwr 4y ago

bigcat12345678 4y ago

Yep, look at what Valve is doing to dota 2...

gverrilla 4y ago
would you care to elaborate? I didn't play dota in a few years
- bigcat12345678 4y ago
  I don't have a close observation either. I have read r/dota2 regularly, and the laziness of Valve just popped fairly often. Things like items promised got delayed and buyers actually forgot them, serious bug in TI (https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/9aexks/a_morphling_bug_that_possibly_changed_the_result/ https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/9aexks/a_morphling_b...) etc.

DantesKite 4y ago

The technical team acted honorably, but the upper stewardship at Riot games behaved horrendously. They sacrificed the competitive integrity of their sport because they didn't want to exclude RNG from the tournament, because they wanted the audience of the Chinese market. This article goes into more detail, giving a larger context for why this situation shouldn't have never happened in the first place. https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/17207/montecristo-its-embarrassing-the-level-of-competitive-integrity-thats-been-sacrificed-for-msi-2022 https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/17207/montecristo-its-e...

colinmhayes 4y ago
> because they wanted the audience of the Chinese market. Or maybe because the tournament would've been shit without them? Who wants to watch an international tournament with only 1 of the clearly top 2 regions represented? WHole thing would've been a forgone conclusion at that point.
- DantesKite 4y ago
  Yes, the tournament would have been worse without them. What I'm saying is that does not somehow justify penalizing the other teams and the tournament writ large to "even" the playing field if you value competitive integrity. As the article states, increasing the ping doesn't make it more fair for the other teams because they actually traveled to the event. They're physically there. It only makes it more fair for RNG who can't attend because of Covid restrictions. To paraphrase, it "punishes the teams who are there for a team that isn't." From a business perspective of course, I agree with you. It's definitely better to sacrifice the level of play for viewership (and it does sacrifice the level of play because artificially increasing the ping at a LAN event makes the game worse). But if you're running a competitive eSport and you want a fair sport, it's a terrible decision.
  - colinmhayes 4y ago
    > increasing the ping doesn't make it more fair for the other teams because they actually traveled to the event Can't agree. Those teams had an advantage when playing RNG. Taking away that advantage does actually make the event more fair for them, even though they are being disadvantaged.
    - DantesKite 4y ago
      Could you clarify what you mean by "those teams had an advantage when playing RNG"? I may have missed something. I'm not sure what advantage you're referring to.
      - 4y ago