10 ms·

One thing that I’ve been trying to educate my colleagues about (including the A/V folks!) is that one can bypass the need to fiddle with drivers by using a gene

One thing that I’ve been trying to educate my colleagues about (including the A/V folks!) is that one can bypass the need to fiddle with drivers by using a generic hardware HDMI -> USB video conversion stick utilizing the mirrorless/DSLR’s HDMI output. It’ll mount as a generic video input that Zoom/Teams/OBS can use. You can find these for $40-$100 and it allows one to switch out hardware brands at will without installing drivers. And don’t forget that it opens up a world of filmmaking mics to complete the package, and sends it all on one cable! I’ve used Fujifilm, Sony, Canon, Panasonic, and I think even a gopro once successfully using this method. Edit - added mic suggestion Also: this works for me on Win/Mac, but I’ve not tried Linux yet.

moduspol 4y ago
I just failed at this recently. Apparently the camera needs to support "clean HDMI out," which many don't. Mine (for example) has HDMI out, but it's for like a "preview" screen for a photographer--it doesn't just output a clean, high-res HDMI stream. There's a web page on Canon's site here: https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/support/self-help-center/eos-webcam-utility https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/support/se... You'll see one list of cameras on there, but at the bottom, you can expand "Clean HDMI", and then you'll see a different list of cameras. Now I'm debating whether or not I want to spend hundreds of dollars for a DIFFERENT photography camera that support clean HDMI.
- delinom 4y ago
  Custom software, such as Magic Lantern[1] for Canon cameras, can offer clean HDMI out for certain models, among other features. [1] https://magiclantern.fm/ https://magiclantern.fm/
  - moduspol 4y ago
    It can, though it doesn't seem to support my Rebel T7 either.
    - ISL 4y ago
      For a T7, one can simply use Canon's webcam software.
      - moduspol 4y ago
        Kind of, yeah [1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31413073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31413073 EDIT: I mean it'd probably be OK if I were just shooting a video--I can fumble through it connecting unreliably, or just do another take if it unexpectedly disconnects. But I'm doing multiple video calls a day, and the webcam built-in to my monitor "just works" every time. It's tough to justify the additional complexity for something that isn't working reliably. That's why I started leaning toward "Clean HDMI". With that method, as long as the HDMI capture device works, everything should "just work" on the Mac side, and as long as the camera can output clean HDMI, it should also "just work." I'm not dealing with a poorly-supported software webcam utility, special USB signaling, or annoying inactivity timeouts. But it looks like I'll need a different camera, and it won't be cheap, but at least it's an option.
- ldayley 4y ago
  Yes, that is a gotcha, as some of the cheaper or older camera models have no HDMI out or the require proprietary conversion with a vendor driver. I haven’t run into this often myself yet since most people I know have been buying newer and more video focused cameras over the past couple years. EDIT - For your case perhaps using camera settings to minimize the data (ISO/aperture/shutter etc) being shown on on the screen works well enough to use what you have?
  - moduspol 4y ago
    > EDIT - For your case perhaps using camera settings to minimize the data (ISO/aperture/shutter etc) being shown on on the screen works well enough to use what you have? I saw a few threads with that suggestion, but I wasn't able to minimize the data being shown, or confirmation that anyone with a Rebel T7 was able to do it.
    - enzanki_ars 4y ago
      I was able to do this on my Rebel T7i by switching to manual focus, and then selecting the "info" button a couple of times to remove the overlay. There might have been some other changes I made, like turning off the grid overlay, but I think just the first two changes were enough though.
- inbx0 4y ago
  It's not ideal but I've circumvented this by disabling automatic focus and other things that add visible elements to the preview, and the just using the preview's 720p output. It's a hassle and you'll have to manually adjust the focus so that everything's not blurry, but the end result quality is quite good.
  - moduspol 4y ago
    Are you doing it on a Rebel T7 or a different camera? I tried doing this on mine but it didn't seem possible.
    - inbx0 4y ago
      Different, I think. It's a Canon but I don't it wasn't bought by me and I don't have it right now so can't check the exact model, sorry. Quick googling suggests that it can be done with Rebel too: https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART173774 https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART17... It should be an AF/MF toggle in the lens.
- mikepurvis 4y ago
  This is the gap I hit, after trying to set up an old Canon G11 (released 2009) as an alternative to a webcam for my partner's Twitch streaming. It has a micro-HDMI port on the side of it, but only for reviewing photos— it doesn't pass through the live viewfinder image, and it appears there may be hardware limitations which prevent that from ever being possible, even with the various hacked up firmware options like CHDK/Magic Lantern [1]. [1]: https://chdk.fandom.com/wiki/G11 https://chdk.fandom.com/wiki/G11
- estebank 4y ago
  For the case of some older Nikon models, like my D7000, it is not possible to get "Clean HDMI" from the stock firmware, but there are options to patch the firmware[1][2] to get this. I use this with an HDMI to USB dongle[5], a wired battery pack[4], the aforementioned D7000 and any of the lenses I already owned. I've found that 35mm is a bit too tight given the length of my desk where the camera is mounted[3], but 20mm-24mm is about what works well for me at the moment. The biggest problem with my setup is that when I open OBS I need to disconnect and reconnect the dongle before OBS will pick it up. Until I figured out how to repeatably get that working it was... more trouble than it was worth. I need OBS because the version of the patched firmware I'm running produces a non standard aspect ratio that I adjust for in OBS, at the cost of a more involved setup and extra CPU utilization. If I used the patched firmware that removes the fixes that (I haven't tried it yet), I would likely forego OBS for meetings. [1]: https://nikonhacker.com/wiki/Supported_Models https://nikonhacker.com/wiki/Supported_Models [2]: https://nikonhacker.com/wiki/Nikon_Patch https://nikonhacker.com/wiki/Nikon_Patch [3]: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094N6W6SP https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094N6W6SP [4]: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071L8R4NC https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071L8R4NC [5]: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07K3FN5MR https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07K3FN5MR
raesene9 4y ago
This is the method I use, in conjunction with the Sony ZV-1 which gets a mention in the article. It also bypasses the problem mentioned in the article about turning up as a mass storage device. What I've found is that by USB charging and using HDMI out, it's good for ~2.5 hours of streaming, which I've only ever hit once as a limit. there's a newer Sony in the same line (the ZV-E10) but it moved the ports to the other side of the camera, so if you flick the LCD round so you can see it, the cables are in the way...
- kuschku 4y ago
  With my a6300 I actually managed to get a week (!) of constant streaming and USB charging out of it. I use a USB data blocker to enforce USB charging only, it works incredibly well.
- FeistySkink 4y ago
  I've been using ZV-1 with Cam Link for almost 2 years now. It can be powered indefinitely with a good micro USB cable and a reliable 2A+ power supply. I often have all day back-to-back meetings so I don't bother to turn it off. Otherwise a dummy battery is an option.
- jmarcher 4y ago
  If you enable PC Remote Function [1] it disables UMS so you don't need another cable/adapter plugged in. I notified the author and he updated the article. [1] https://helpguide.sony.net/dc/1910/v1/en/contents/TP0002886247.html https://helpguide.sony.net/dc/1910/v1/en/contents/TP00028862...
formerly_proven 4y ago
> You can find these for $40-$100 and it allows one to switch out hardware brands at will without installing drivers. The cheap ones (as little as eight bucks) all use the same all-in-one HDMI-receiver-MJPEG-encoding-USB-device chip; it's not perfect, but they do actually support 1080p at 30 fps.
- tomatocracy 4y ago
  They're generally pretty reliable but an issue to be aware of is that the cheaper ones can have quite high latency (0.5s or more). This means for Zoom etc you will have to choose between audio/video being desynced and more awkward conversation (if interactive discussion is more important than presenting).
- em-bee 4y ago
  is the quality at least comparable to what i can get from a mid-range webcam? because that is what this is competing with for someone like me who already has the necessary camera, but also needs a webcam occasionally. i found this article https://havecamerawilltravel.com/nikon-d3400-webcam-live-streaming/ https://havecamerawilltravel.com/nikon-d3400-webcam-live-str... that suggests the budget device is workable but obviously doesn't deliver the quality that the camera can provide. but how does it compare to a regular webcam?
sudosysgen 4y ago
I even got one for 8$ on AliExpress, it's still working fine two years on :) It's a bit limited in that it only does 1080p30 and it's not the best quality either.
hkon 4y ago
Yes, using this with my XT2. Works perfectly.
chrisseaton 4y ago
Isn’t the video interface over USB standard? You don’t need drivers do you? Just plug and play.
- dividedbyzero 4y ago
  At least my Fuji X-T4 insists on its own driver that makes use of live view video the camera sends via some proprietary protocol and exposes that as a virtual webcam. It doesn't do USB webcam sadly.
rhplus 4y ago
Ditto. I'm currently using an old Nikon D5100 with a generic HMDI->USB input stick ($15), a generic USB-->battery adaptor ($35) and a custom firmware (to remove borders and menus) from https://nikonhacker.com/ https://nikonhacker.com/ The body is old enough to not car about voiding warranties by using a generic battery adaptor and custom firmware.
Saris 4y ago
Panasonic has a webcam driver via USB, so you don't even need the HDMI capture device.

moduspol 4y ago

I just failed at this recently. Apparently the camera needs to support "clean HDMI out," which many don't. Mine (for example) has HDMI out, but it's for like a "preview" screen for a photographer--it doesn't just output a clean, high-res HDMI stream. There's a web page on Canon's site here: https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/support/self-help-center/eos-webcam-utility https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/support/se... You'll see one list of cameras on there, but at the bottom, you can expand "Clean HDMI", and then you'll see a different list of cameras. Now I'm debating whether or not I want to spend hundreds of dollars for a DIFFERENT photography camera that support clean HDMI.

delinom 4y ago
Custom software, such as Magic Lantern[1] for Canon cameras, can offer clean HDMI out for certain models, among other features. [1] https://magiclantern.fm/ https://magiclantern.fm/
- moduspol 4y ago
  It can, though it doesn't seem to support my Rebel T7 either.
  - ISL 4y ago
    For a T7, one can simply use Canon's webcam software.
    - moduspol 4y ago
      Kind of, yeah [1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31413073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31413073 EDIT: I mean it'd probably be OK if I were just shooting a video--I can fumble through it connecting unreliably, or just do another take if it unexpectedly disconnects. But I'm doing multiple video calls a day, and the webcam built-in to my monitor "just works" every time. It's tough to justify the additional complexity for something that isn't working reliably. That's why I started leaning toward "Clean HDMI". With that method, as long as the HDMI capture device works, everything should "just work" on the Mac side, and as long as the camera can output clean HDMI, it should also "just work." I'm not dealing with a poorly-supported software webcam utility, special USB signaling, or annoying inactivity timeouts. But it looks like I'll need a different camera, and it won't be cheap, but at least it's an option.
ldayley 4y ago
Yes, that is a gotcha, as some of the cheaper or older camera models have no HDMI out or the require proprietary conversion with a vendor driver. I haven’t run into this often myself yet since most people I know have been buying newer and more video focused cameras over the past couple years. EDIT - For your case perhaps using camera settings to minimize the data (ISO/aperture/shutter etc) being shown on on the screen works well enough to use what you have?
- moduspol 4y ago
  > EDIT - For your case perhaps using camera settings to minimize the data (ISO/aperture/shutter etc) being shown on on the screen works well enough to use what you have? I saw a few threads with that suggestion, but I wasn't able to minimize the data being shown, or confirmation that anyone with a Rebel T7 was able to do it.
  - enzanki_ars 4y ago
    I was able to do this on my Rebel T7i by switching to manual focus, and then selecting the "info" button a couple of times to remove the overlay. There might have been some other changes I made, like turning off the grid overlay, but I think just the first two changes were enough though.
inbx0 4y ago
It's not ideal but I've circumvented this by disabling automatic focus and other things that add visible elements to the preview, and the just using the preview's 720p output. It's a hassle and you'll have to manually adjust the focus so that everything's not blurry, but the end result quality is quite good.
- moduspol 4y ago
  Are you doing it on a Rebel T7 or a different camera? I tried doing this on mine but it didn't seem possible.
  - inbx0 4y ago
    Different, I think. It's a Canon but I don't it wasn't bought by me and I don't have it right now so can't check the exact model, sorry. Quick googling suggests that it can be done with Rebel too: https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART173774 https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART17... It should be an AF/MF toggle in the lens.
mikepurvis 4y ago
This is the gap I hit, after trying to set up an old Canon G11 (released 2009) as an alternative to a webcam for my partner's Twitch streaming. It has a micro-HDMI port on the side of it, but only for reviewing photos— it doesn't pass through the live viewfinder image, and it appears there may be hardware limitations which prevent that from ever being possible, even with the various hacked up firmware options like CHDK/Magic Lantern [1]. [1]: https://chdk.fandom.com/wiki/G11 https://chdk.fandom.com/wiki/G11
estebank 4y ago
For the case of some older Nikon models, like my D7000, it is not possible to get "Clean HDMI" from the stock firmware, but there are options to patch the firmware[1][2] to get this. I use this with an HDMI to USB dongle[5], a wired battery pack[4], the aforementioned D7000 and any of the lenses I already owned. I've found that 35mm is a bit too tight given the length of my desk where the camera is mounted[3], but 20mm-24mm is about what works well for me at the moment. The biggest problem with my setup is that when I open OBS I need to disconnect and reconnect the dongle before OBS will pick it up. Until I figured out how to repeatably get that working it was... more trouble than it was worth. I need OBS because the version of the patched firmware I'm running produces a non standard aspect ratio that I adjust for in OBS, at the cost of a more involved setup and extra CPU utilization. If I used the patched firmware that removes the fixes that (I haven't tried it yet), I would likely forego OBS for meetings. [1]: https://nikonhacker.com/wiki/Supported_Models https://nikonhacker.com/wiki/Supported_Models [2]: https://nikonhacker.com/wiki/Nikon_Patch https://nikonhacker.com/wiki/Nikon_Patch [3]: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094N6W6SP https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094N6W6SP [4]: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071L8R4NC https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071L8R4NC [5]: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07K3FN5MR https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07K3FN5MR

raesene9 4y ago

This is the method I use, in conjunction with the Sony ZV-1 which gets a mention in the article. It also bypasses the problem mentioned in the article about turning up as a mass storage device. What I've found is that by USB charging and using HDMI out, it's good for ~2.5 hours of streaming, which I've only ever hit once as a limit. there's a newer Sony in the same line (the ZV-E10) but it moved the ports to the other side of the camera, so if you flick the LCD round so you can see it, the cables are in the way...

kuschku 4y ago
With my a6300 I actually managed to get a week (!) of constant streaming and USB charging out of it. I use a USB data blocker to enforce USB charging only, it works incredibly well.
FeistySkink 4y ago
I've been using ZV-1 with Cam Link for almost 2 years now. It can be powered indefinitely with a good micro USB cable and a reliable 2A+ power supply. I often have all day back-to-back meetings so I don't bother to turn it off. Otherwise a dummy battery is an option.
jmarcher 4y ago
If you enable PC Remote Function [1] it disables UMS so you don't need another cable/adapter plugged in. I notified the author and he updated the article. [1] https://helpguide.sony.net/dc/1910/v1/en/contents/TP0002886247.html https://helpguide.sony.net/dc/1910/v1/en/contents/TP00028862...

formerly_proven 4y ago

> You can find these for $40-$100 and it allows one to switch out hardware brands at will without installing drivers. The cheap ones (as little as eight bucks) all use the same all-in-one HDMI-receiver-MJPEG-encoding-USB-device chip; it's not perfect, but they do actually support 1080p at 30 fps.

tomatocracy 4y ago
They're generally pretty reliable but an issue to be aware of is that the cheaper ones can have quite high latency (0.5s or more). This means for Zoom etc you will have to choose between audio/video being desynced and more awkward conversation (if interactive discussion is more important than presenting).
em-bee 4y ago
is the quality at least comparable to what i can get from a mid-range webcam? because that is what this is competing with for someone like me who already has the necessary camera, but also needs a webcam occasionally. i found this article https://havecamerawilltravel.com/nikon-d3400-webcam-live-streaming/ https://havecamerawilltravel.com/nikon-d3400-webcam-live-str... that suggests the budget device is workable but obviously doesn't deliver the quality that the camera can provide. but how does it compare to a regular webcam?

sudosysgen 4y ago

I even got one for 8$ on AliExpress, it's still working fine two years on :) It's a bit limited in that it only does 1080p30 and it's not the best quality either.

hkon 4y ago

Yes, using this with my XT2. Works perfectly.

chrisseaton 4y ago

Isn’t the video interface over USB standard? You don’t need drivers do you? Just plug and play.

dividedbyzero 4y ago
At least my Fuji X-T4 insists on its own driver that makes use of live view video the camera sends via some proprietary protocol and exposes that as a virtual webcam. It doesn't do USB webcam sadly.

rhplus 4y ago

Ditto. I'm currently using an old Nikon D5100 with a generic HMDI->USB input stick ($15), a generic USB-->battery adaptor ($35) and a custom firmware (to remove borders and menus) from https://nikonhacker.com/ https://nikonhacker.com/ The body is old enough to not car about voiding warranties by using a generic battery adaptor and custom firmware.

Saris 4y ago

Panasonic has a webcam driver via USB, so you don't even need the HDMI capture device.