9 ms·

I wonder how much of the limited sales of the iPhone mini could be attributed to the branding? What if Apple were to drop the mini and make this the base iPhone

by dr_ 4y ago

I wonder how much of the limited sales of the iPhone mini could be attributed to the branding? What if Apple were to drop the mini and make this the base iPhone, with the other models being Plus, Pro, Max? Margins may be poorer with Mini, so it likely won’t happen, but I feel mini sales could be much higher if they wanted them to be.

dan-robertson 4y ago
Yeah you can imagine two purposes for the mini: 1. Cheaper iPhone 2. You don’t want to carry a big iPhone and you have a Mac/iPad nearby anyway for anything complicated so a big phone is unnecessary. The second case should motivate wanting eg their ‘pro’ cameras in the small phone but the first case motivates making it cheap and low-margin. You can also imagine a world where apple markets a mini phone as also being an optional companion to a bigger phone, but they already have the watch for that.
- gopalv 4y ago
  > 1. Cheaper iPhone > 2. You don’t want to carry a big iPhone If you add those two up, you get "Middle school kids". Though the apple watch with its own SIM has solved some of the "contact device without instagram" needs that parents want with their kids.
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  But they could have both things in two separate models. Wasn't the 11 pro the size of the mini / SE? I don't remember whether there was an 11 mini, but it seems to me that 11 pro / SE were exactly that, and the current minis / se are the size of the 7/8/se/11 pro. I the time I couldn't justify buying a new phone, but I remember late last year, when I figured I could start looking, I was possibly contemplating getting the 13 pro, for the camera. But when I saw how huge it was, I immediately abandoned the idea.
  - pge 4y ago
    first gen SE is smallest, and both it and the 2nd/3rd gen SE are smaller than the 11 pro (though the latter is closer, only 0.2" smaller in both length and width). The iphone 12 mini and 13 mini are both smaller than the 2nd/3rd gen SE but larger than the 1st gen SE. The 2nd/3rd gen SE is the same size as the iphone 8.
    - mikepurvis 4y ago
      I used a first-gen SE up until last year and thought it was great. I know it was super old, but it being really small was one of the biggest selling points of it for me.
mtoner23 4y ago
Sounds like you've answered your own question. Margins are lower, why would they want to sell more of those compared to the regular iphones?
- torstenvl 4y ago
  So increase the price? As a criminal defense attorney, I will never own a FaceID device. Ever. I owned an iPhone 7, then an iPhone 8, then an iPhone SE 2020, then another iPhone SE 2020. I may upgrade to the iPhone SE 2022. Cost is not an issue for me. I don't buy the iPhone SE because I'm cheap. I buy the iPhone SE because it is, on balance, hands down the best phone Apple makes right now for people who value convenience, portability, and security. I tried the iPhone Mini when I broke my first iPhone SE while hiking. I don't trust FaceID to work when I want it to (masks, glasses vs contacts, etc. tripped it up). I don't trust FaceID not to work when I don't want it to. I ended up returning it and going back to the SE. I don't think I'm alone.
  - shawn-butler 4y ago
    Just curious what impact / relevance does being a criminal defense attorney have on using a device with FaceID?
    - codeslave13 4y ago
      IANAL. But from what i gather you cant be compelled to enter a passcode or forces to unlock phone with a fingerprint. There is no clear such protections for face.
      - torstenvl 4y ago
        More or less. In my jurisdiction you can be compelled to give up biometrics, which has been expanded to include biometric unlocking. However, it requires a separate authorization, which in many cases will take long enough for the paperwork for TouchID to time out, and passcodes cannot be compelled (again, in my jurisdiction). There is no such protection for directing you to look at your phone. For clients under investigation who have FaceID or similar unlocking for phones or computers, we always recommend they disable it and just use a passcode until the investigation is complete.
mgkimsal 4y ago
> Margins may be poorer with Mini, But they don't necessarily have to be. We've never had an option where, for the same price, you could choose screen sizes. There's a sizable portion of people for whom larger phones are simply difficult to use. Would I have paid an extra $50 for my iPhone 12 mini? Yep, because I was buying based on the size, not the price. This is so weird compared to 20 years ago, where the smaller the phone was, the more expensive it was. The big bulky phones were a sign that you couldn't afford the smaller one. A few friends joke that I couldn't afford a 'real' phone when I pull out my 12 mini, which... is nuts because I bought it outright, and a couple of them worry about 'when can I upgrade? oh, let me check how many more payments I have on this current model'.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  That's not a totally fair comparison, because before smartphones there was no inherent advantage to a phone being larger. You got exactly the same features either way, so miniature was premium. Now the big screen is the premium feature.
prawn 4y ago
Keep a base and make the Mini another premium option. It's not always that a smaller device is weaker but that it required sophisticated engineering to get everything that compact. I'd pick a name that suggests that it's a lifestyle thing rather than being spartan.

by dr_ 4y ago

dan-robertson 4y ago

Yeah you can imagine two purposes for the mini: 1. Cheaper iPhone 2. You don’t want to carry a big iPhone and you have a Mac/iPad nearby anyway for anything complicated so a big phone is unnecessary. The second case should motivate wanting eg their ‘pro’ cameras in the small phone but the first case motivates making it cheap and low-margin. You can also imagine a world where apple markets a mini phone as also being an optional companion to a bigger phone, but they already have the watch for that.

gopalv 4y ago
> 1. Cheaper iPhone > 2. You don’t want to carry a big iPhone If you add those two up, you get "Middle school kids". Though the apple watch with its own SIM has solved some of the "contact device without instagram" needs that parents want with their kids.
vladvasiliu 4y ago
But they could have both things in two separate models. Wasn't the 11 pro the size of the mini / SE? I don't remember whether there was an 11 mini, but it seems to me that 11 pro / SE were exactly that, and the current minis / se are the size of the 7/8/se/11 pro. I the time I couldn't justify buying a new phone, but I remember late last year, when I figured I could start looking, I was possibly contemplating getting the 13 pro, for the camera. But when I saw how huge it was, I immediately abandoned the idea.
- pge 4y ago
  first gen SE is smallest, and both it and the 2nd/3rd gen SE are smaller than the 11 pro (though the latter is closer, only 0.2" smaller in both length and width). The iphone 12 mini and 13 mini are both smaller than the 2nd/3rd gen SE but larger than the 1st gen SE. The 2nd/3rd gen SE is the same size as the iphone 8.
  - mikepurvis 4y ago
    I used a first-gen SE up until last year and thought it was great. I know it was super old, but it being really small was one of the biggest selling points of it for me.

mtoner23 4y ago

Sounds like you've answered your own question. Margins are lower, why would they want to sell more of those compared to the regular iphones?

torstenvl 4y ago
So increase the price? As a criminal defense attorney, I will never own a FaceID device. Ever. I owned an iPhone 7, then an iPhone 8, then an iPhone SE 2020, then another iPhone SE 2020. I may upgrade to the iPhone SE 2022. Cost is not an issue for me. I don't buy the iPhone SE because I'm cheap. I buy the iPhone SE because it is, on balance, hands down the best phone Apple makes right now for people who value convenience, portability, and security. I tried the iPhone Mini when I broke my first iPhone SE while hiking. I don't trust FaceID to work when I want it to (masks, glasses vs contacts, etc. tripped it up). I don't trust FaceID not to work when I don't want it to. I ended up returning it and going back to the SE. I don't think I'm alone.
- shawn-butler 4y ago
  Just curious what impact / relevance does being a criminal defense attorney have on using a device with FaceID?
  - codeslave13 4y ago
    IANAL. But from what i gather you cant be compelled to enter a passcode or forces to unlock phone with a fingerprint. There is no clear such protections for face.
    - torstenvl 4y ago
      More or less. In my jurisdiction you can be compelled to give up biometrics, which has been expanded to include biometric unlocking. However, it requires a separate authorization, which in many cases will take long enough for the paperwork for TouchID to time out, and passcodes cannot be compelled (again, in my jurisdiction). There is no such protection for directing you to look at your phone. For clients under investigation who have FaceID or similar unlocking for phones or computers, we always recommend they disable it and just use a passcode until the investigation is complete.

mgkimsal 4y ago

> Margins may be poorer with Mini, But they don't necessarily have to be. We've never had an option where, for the same price, you could choose screen sizes. There's a sizable portion of people for whom larger phones are simply difficult to use. Would I have paid an extra $50 for my iPhone 12 mini? Yep, because I was buying based on the size, not the price. This is so weird compared to 20 years ago, where the smaller the phone was, the more expensive it was. The big bulky phones were a sign that you couldn't afford the smaller one. A few friends joke that I couldn't afford a 'real' phone when I pull out my 12 mini, which... is nuts because I bought it outright, and a couple of them worry about 'when can I upgrade? oh, let me check how many more payments I have on this current model'.

rootusrootus 4y ago
That's not a totally fair comparison, because before smartphones there was no inherent advantage to a phone being larger. You got exactly the same features either way, so miniature was premium. Now the big screen is the premium feature.

prawn 4y ago

Keep a base and make the Mini another premium option. It's not always that a smaller device is weaker but that it required sophisticated engineering to get everything that compact. I'd pick a name that suggests that it's a lifestyle thing rather than being spartan.