9 ms·

A problem is that even within the niche of small phones, not everybody has the same wishes. Compared to your ideal specifications, my wishes are: support for m

A problem is that even within the niche of small phones, not everybody has the same wishes. Compared to your ideal specifications, my wishes are: support for microSD card storage; battery that easily and reliably lasts a full day with moderate phone usage; fingerprint sensor, not necessarily on the power button; camera decent, not necessarily great (I don't care that much about low light performance, for example). I'm tempted to sign up even with the specifications as you list them though. Missing microSD card support could be the major dealbreaker. Or alternatively some other user-friendly reliable method of getting lots of files from my PC to the phone's storage, but so far I haven't found any. Early Android versions supporter USB mass storage and that worked pretty well, but the transfer method implemented on newer versions is very slow and never works reliably for me.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> Missing microSD card support could be the major dealbreaker And for the other guy a 3.5mm jack and for a third a physical off switch and look at that we have too many dealbreaker features for the form factor. Power users tend to have more dealbreakers than the average consumer. Anecdotally, it seems power users prefer smaller phones. This might be what kills the small phone factor.
- kuschku 4y ago
  The Moto G (2013) had a microSD slot, a 3.5" port and all of it in a 4.5" form factor. Why can't we just get an updated version of that?
  - stevekemp 4y ago
    I started with one of those, and every two-three years I upgrade to the most recently available one. Over time the MotoG phones have been getting larger - to the extent that now the one I have doesn't fit in my sporran, if I go out wearing a kilt.
    - BucketsMcG 4y ago
      I love this. I propose we henceforth judge all phones by the sporran test.
  - tom_ 4y ago
    It didn't have an SD card slot of any kind!
    - gusgus01 4y ago
      Wikipedia says it did, at least on the LTE model. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moto_G_(1st_generation) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moto_G_(1st_generation) Edit: ah found another source as well about it being on the LTE model https://www.phonearena.com/phones/Motorola-Moto-G-LTE_id8655 https://www.phonearena.com/phones/Motorola-Moto-G-LTE_id8655
- samatman 4y ago
  I believe the bit about power users is the HN effect at work, the main customers for small phones are people with small hands and/or pockets, who are disproportionally women. Women are also overrepresented in the Really Big Phone market, and wield them two-handed. They also trend heavily iPhone in the US market, but that leaves plenty of alpha for the manufacturer who serves the actual market for small-form-factor Android phones.
  - stormbrew 4y ago
    I agree with this. Power users are a tiny market compared to “people who can’t reasonably fit a modern phone in their pocket.” But if you have to keep your phone in a purse anyways, why not just get a big one? So mostly the people in that market who still care are the ones who can’t or don’t want to carry a purse, which is also a smaller market. (I’m in this market though, so i am sad)
    - rst 4y ago
      Not everyone wants a phone that they have to operate two-handed -- particularly those with small hands to begin with.
      - eropple 4y ago
        The evidence suggests that most folks do, though. I don't, to be clear--I'm on your side here. My iPhone 11 is way too big, I just needed a new phone during that spot where the SE was long in the tooth. But people genuinely seem to like dinner plates as phones.
      - stormbrew 4y ago
        Again, i think the phenomenon here is similar: if you can’t even get a phone you can operate one handed properly, you may as well get a bigger screen anyways. I’m not saying that this is people’s preferred choice, I’m saying it’s a logical decision given the choices available that seems counterintuitive from first principles (and assuming a market with real choices).
- frostwarrior 4y ago
  I disagree. I bet many average consumers would want a small phone for work, travel, etc. IMHO vendors try not to sell small flagship phones so you have to buy a foldable phone, which is way more expensive.
  - masklinn 4y ago
    > I bet many average consumers would want a small phone for work, travel, etc. They neither say they do nor buy those which are available. Maybe they'd like a smaller phone for a limited set of situations (though there’s no evidence of that) but they’re not going to buy two phones, so that’s not relevant. It's like asking a single-issue voter their preference on other subjects.
- debaserab2 4y ago
  I definitely want a smaller phone but I don't know that I'd call myself a power user given that I use my phone less now than I have in the past 5 years - but it has been a total replacement for things like photography.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  No, just do all three of those things. Add a couple millimeters to the thickness.
onli 4y ago
You shouldn't be downvoted. It's exactly the problem. My main factors are: Replaceable battery, headphone jack, LineageOS (or other custom rom) support. If those are matched the smaller the better - I loved my HP Veer, which I admit did not meet these requirements - but without them size is not the main factor. Those additional requirements further splinter the market. But what's the point in buying a small phone if it does not meet these standards, which are all about longevity? Then it will just be unusable in ~2 years. Which would make it no better than the otherwise perfect small phone I already have at home, the Veer.
opan 4y ago
>Or alternatively some other user-friendly reliable method of getting lots of files from my PC to the phone's storage, but so far I haven't found any. SyncThing, sftp from a termux shell, or primitive ftpd.
nabakin 4y ago
> Early Android versions supporter USB mass storage and that worked pretty well, but the transfer method implemented on newer versions is very slow and never works reliably for me. Have you tried both connecting your phone to your computer via USB and connecting your phone to a USB stick?
- roelschroeven 4y ago
  Connecting my phone to a USB stick is not something I have tried yet. I wasn't even aware that that's supposed to work.Thanks, I'll give that a try.
29083011397778 4y ago
> Early Android versions supporter USB mass storage and that worked pretty well, but the transfer method implemented on newer versions is very slow and never works reliably for me. Sounds like you haven't been using ADB. Normally, like you've seen, getting files on or off a modern Android handset is a terrible experience. Considering I only do bulk transfers from my own PC, I just apt install adb, then adb push $files $destination. Highly recommend - it's one of the few ways Android is still dramatically better for techy users.
scarface74 4y ago
You want a small phone. But you want one with better battery life and you want an Android? Between the inefficiency of non Apple ARM chipsets and the inefficiency of Android, that’s not likely to happen.
- foresto 4y ago
  > that’s not likely to happen. Why not? It has happened before. My Xperia XZ1 Compact: - runs Android (I'm on Android 10, but might upgrade) - measures about 14cm diagonally and 8-9mm thick - uses around 10-15% charge per day of light use (without Google services) - has a standard headphone jack - has stereo speakers - has decent front and back cameras, with no bump - has a microSD slot - has a USB type C port - has a fingerprint sensor (I disabled mine) - is water-tight and dust-tight (IP68) - supports VoLTE - supports WiFi calling My previous phone was similar, and a bit slimmer. The one before that didn't get such good battery life, but its physical keyboard, swappable battery, and even smaller size made up for having to charge more often. Obviously, these devices are not common, but they are made from time to time. I'm looking at hardware right now that proves there is no technical barrier. I don't see any reason to dissuade people from asking for a new model.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    It’s also a phone that was first announced in 2016, by a company that has lost money for the past 5 years and is basically retreating from the global market. https://www.androidheadlines.com/2019/05/sony-mobile-strategy-meeting-defocus-regions-full-year-2019.html https://www.androidheadlines.com/2019/05/sony-mobile-strateg... Not exactly a ringing endorsement of its mobile phone strategy. And it last a long time not using any services that make Android what it is to most users (ie using Google service) is not a mass market selling point.
    - foresto 4y ago
      You seem to be arguing in bad faith. Being a few years old does not make my example less valid. (Arguably the opposite, given that it still works well today.) The point is that it meets GP's needs. Sony's poor marketing strategy was not caused by one phone model, nor is it a requirement for small phones in general. You could easily adjust the numbers I quoted to estimate battery life with Google services running. Assume half, or a third, if you like. It would still meet GP's needs.
jpindar 4y ago
I use Total Commander to transfer files. It has plugins for many different kinds of transfer, but I mainly use SMB for computers on my lan and sometimes sftp for others.
foresto 4y ago
> user-friendly reliable method of getting lots of files from my PC to the phone's storage Have you tried KDE Connect? (Hint: It's not only for KDE desktop users.) https://kdeconnect.kde.org/ https://kdeconnect.kde.org/

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> Missing microSD card support could be the major dealbreaker And for the other guy a 3.5mm jack and for a third a physical off switch and look at that we have too many dealbreaker features for the form factor. Power users tend to have more dealbreakers than the average consumer. Anecdotally, it seems power users prefer smaller phones. This might be what kills the small phone factor.

kuschku 4y ago
The Moto G (2013) had a microSD slot, a 3.5" port and all of it in a 4.5" form factor. Why can't we just get an updated version of that?
- stevekemp 4y ago
  I started with one of those, and every two-three years I upgrade to the most recently available one. Over time the MotoG phones have been getting larger - to the extent that now the one I have doesn't fit in my sporran, if I go out wearing a kilt.
  - BucketsMcG 4y ago
    I love this. I propose we henceforth judge all phones by the sporran test.
- tom_ 4y ago
  It didn't have an SD card slot of any kind!
  - gusgus01 4y ago
    Wikipedia says it did, at least on the LTE model. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moto_G_(1st_generation) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moto_G_(1st_generation) Edit: ah found another source as well about it being on the LTE model https://www.phonearena.com/phones/Motorola-Moto-G-LTE_id8655 https://www.phonearena.com/phones/Motorola-Moto-G-LTE_id8655
samatman 4y ago
I believe the bit about power users is the HN effect at work, the main customers for small phones are people with small hands and/or pockets, who are disproportionally women. Women are also overrepresented in the Really Big Phone market, and wield them two-handed. They also trend heavily iPhone in the US market, but that leaves plenty of alpha for the manufacturer who serves the actual market for small-form-factor Android phones.
- stormbrew 4y ago
  I agree with this. Power users are a tiny market compared to “people who can’t reasonably fit a modern phone in their pocket.” But if you have to keep your phone in a purse anyways, why not just get a big one? So mostly the people in that market who still care are the ones who can’t or don’t want to carry a purse, which is also a smaller market. (I’m in this market though, so i am sad)
  - rst 4y ago
    Not everyone wants a phone that they have to operate two-handed -- particularly those with small hands to begin with.
    - eropple 4y ago
      The evidence suggests that most folks do, though. I don't, to be clear--I'm on your side here. My iPhone 11 is way too big, I just needed a new phone during that spot where the SE was long in the tooth. But people genuinely seem to like dinner plates as phones.
    - stormbrew 4y ago
      Again, i think the phenomenon here is similar: if you can’t even get a phone you can operate one handed properly, you may as well get a bigger screen anyways. I’m not saying that this is people’s preferred choice, I’m saying it’s a logical decision given the choices available that seems counterintuitive from first principles (and assuming a market with real choices).
frostwarrior 4y ago
I disagree. I bet many average consumers would want a small phone for work, travel, etc. IMHO vendors try not to sell small flagship phones so you have to buy a foldable phone, which is way more expensive.
- masklinn 4y ago
  > I bet many average consumers would want a small phone for work, travel, etc. They neither say they do nor buy those which are available. Maybe they'd like a smaller phone for a limited set of situations (though there’s no evidence of that) but they’re not going to buy two phones, so that’s not relevant. It's like asking a single-issue voter their preference on other subjects.
debaserab2 4y ago
I definitely want a smaller phone but I don't know that I'd call myself a power user given that I use my phone less now than I have in the past 5 years - but it has been a total replacement for things like photography.
pessimizer 4y ago
No, just do all three of those things. Add a couple millimeters to the thickness.

onli 4y ago

You shouldn't be downvoted. It's exactly the problem. My main factors are: Replaceable battery, headphone jack, LineageOS (or other custom rom) support. If those are matched the smaller the better - I loved my HP Veer, which I admit did not meet these requirements - but without them size is not the main factor. Those additional requirements further splinter the market. But what's the point in buying a small phone if it does not meet these standards, which are all about longevity? Then it will just be unusable in ~2 years. Which would make it no better than the otherwise perfect small phone I already have at home, the Veer.

opan 4y ago

>Or alternatively some other user-friendly reliable method of getting lots of files from my PC to the phone's storage, but so far I haven't found any. SyncThing, sftp from a termux shell, or primitive ftpd.

nabakin 4y ago

roelschroeven 4y ago
Connecting my phone to a USB stick is not something I have tried yet. I wasn't even aware that that's supposed to work.Thanks, I'll give that a try.

29083011397778 4y ago

> Early Android versions supporter USB mass storage and that worked pretty well, but the transfer method implemented on newer versions is very slow and never works reliably for me. Sounds like you haven't been using ADB. Normally, like you've seen, getting files on or off a modern Android handset is a terrible experience. Considering I only do bulk transfers from my own PC, I just apt install adb, then adb push $files $destination. Highly recommend - it's one of the few ways Android is still dramatically better for techy users.

scarface74 4y ago

You want a small phone. But you want one with better battery life and you want an Android? Between the inefficiency of non Apple ARM chipsets and the inefficiency of Android, that’s not likely to happen.

foresto 4y ago
> that’s not likely to happen. Why not? It has happened before. My Xperia XZ1 Compact: - runs Android (I'm on Android 10, but might upgrade) - measures about 14cm diagonally and 8-9mm thick - uses around 10-15% charge per day of light use (without Google services) - has a standard headphone jack - has stereo speakers - has decent front and back cameras, with no bump - has a microSD slot - has a USB type C port - has a fingerprint sensor (I disabled mine) - is water-tight and dust-tight (IP68) - supports VoLTE - supports WiFi calling My previous phone was similar, and a bit slimmer. The one before that didn't get such good battery life, but its physical keyboard, swappable battery, and even smaller size made up for having to charge more often. Obviously, these devices are not common, but they are made from time to time. I'm looking at hardware right now that proves there is no technical barrier. I don't see any reason to dissuade people from asking for a new model.
- scarface74 4y ago
  It’s also a phone that was first announced in 2016, by a company that has lost money for the past 5 years and is basically retreating from the global market. https://www.androidheadlines.com/2019/05/sony-mobile-strategy-meeting-defocus-regions-full-year-2019.html https://www.androidheadlines.com/2019/05/sony-mobile-strateg... Not exactly a ringing endorsement of its mobile phone strategy. And it last a long time not using any services that make Android what it is to most users (ie using Google service) is not a mass market selling point.
  - foresto 4y ago
    You seem to be arguing in bad faith. Being a few years old does not make my example less valid. (Arguably the opposite, given that it still works well today.) The point is that it meets GP's needs. Sony's poor marketing strategy was not caused by one phone model, nor is it a requirement for small phones in general. You could easily adjust the numbers I quoted to estimate battery life with Google services running. Assume half, or a third, if you like. It would still meet GP's needs.

jpindar 4y ago

I use Total Commander to transfer files. It has plugins for many different kinds of transfer, but I mainly use SMB for computers on my lan and sometimes sftp for others.

foresto 4y ago

> user-friendly reliable method of getting lots of files from my PC to the phone's storage Have you tried KDE Connect? (Hint: It's not only for KDE desktop users.) https://kdeconnect.kde.org/ https://kdeconnect.kde.org/