7 ms·

I touch on this on the site. 5% of iPhones sold are minis. That's 10m sold per year! That is more than enough demand to cover the NREs and costs of making a pho

I touch on this on the site. 5% of iPhones sold are minis. That's 10m sold per year! That is more than enough demand to cover the NREs and costs of making a phone. * https://9to5mac.com/2022/04/21/cirp-iphone-13-best-selling-lineup-in-recent-years-despite-tiny-interest-in-iphone-mini/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/04/21/cirp-iphone-13-best-selling-l...

DANK_YACHT 4y ago
5% seems quite small and not worth the trouble. It might be worth it if a small phone generated 5% in additional sales, but most people buying a small iPhone would likely buy a normal-sized iPhone if no small version was available rather than making the switch to Android.
- blairbeckwith 4y ago
  The point is that 5% (or 10m phones) does not make sense for Apple to continue to build, but that has no relation to whether it's worth it to another company.
- ncallaway 4y ago
  5% of 100 phones is 5 phones. 5% of 200,000,000 is 10,000,000. 5% can be a huge number, or a tiny number, depending on what it's 5% of. I switched from Android to Apple specifically for the iPhone mini, and if they killed it, I would switch to the smallest phone on the market.
  - DANK_YACHT 4y ago
    My point is that 5% is probably an irrelevant number because it’s not 5% additional sales. If the mini wasn’t available, many people would get a normal iPhone instead of switch to Android. So the net sales is closer to 0. Apple seems to agree with this sentiment and there will be no mini starting with the iPhone 14: https://9to5mac.com/2022/03/14/exclusive-iphone-14-coming-in-four-models-without-mini-version-pro-models-with-taller-screen-satellite-features-still-coming/amp/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/03/14/exclusive-iphone-14-coming-in... Good luck with your switch.
    - criddell 4y ago
      That's why I picked up an iPhone 13 Mini. It's a really great phone and when I need a new phone six years from now, I'm hoping there's something as good to replace it.
    - nostromo 4y ago
      Phone sales aren’t driven by switching, and haven’t been for a while, they’re about upgrading. Apple knows this better than anyone. For example: I upgrade my phone every two years or so, so long as I like the new phones. If I don’t like the new phones, I wait as long as possible. People that like smaller phones won’t necessarily leave the iPhone if they kill the Mini - they will just keep their current phones for as long as possible. And that can indeed hurt sales, even if Apple doesn’t lose market share.
  - 4ggr0 4y ago
    I switched to Apple after 10 years of using Android. Wanted to have a good and small phone, which the 12 mini is. Was a hard decision, because my Android was rooted with LineageOS, was able to block ads and all kinds of nice things. But ultimately, it just pissed me off too much to carry around a bulky phone (Fairphone 3). Fairly happy with the 12 mini, just don't like the Apple ecosystem that much.
  - brewdad 4y ago
    Is there a world where the iPhone mini is necessary or desirable when the iPhone SE also exists? I don't see a need for both, especially when they run the same processor under the hood.
    - isoprophlex 4y ago
      Optics on the 13 mini are significantly better!
    - ska 4y ago
      Doesn't the SE have an significantly worse & smaller screen (not to mention camera), although it's a slightly larger package? SE is clearly a 'budget' (at least for apple) phone. Some people really want a small phone that isn't.
    - gonehome 4y ago
      The mini is a flagship phone with flagship specs and better design. The newest SE is substantially larger and worse. I love my mini, but it’s also clear this is the last one.
    - robertoandred 4y ago
      The current SE is bigger than the mini.
    - dont__panic 4y ago
      I use an iPhone SE 2016, which uses the same chassis as the iPhone 5/5s. I tried an iPhone 6S for a year before I got this phone. Couldn't stand the size. The current SE is the same size as the 6S. I'm basically stuck at a dead-end of phone size. The current SE is not compact by historical standards. I'm not saying all phones need to be smaller, I just want one decent option.
    - buildsjets 4y ago
      The iPhone SE is a full-sized phone. It just happens to be obsolete in the marketplace, and the other full-sized phones it competes against have become even fuller sized.
- vvillena 4y ago
  If the iPhone mini is managing to capture all of the "I want a small flagship phone" market, it's worth it. As long as the Mini exists, it's impossible for other manufacturers to try and compete.
  - auggierose 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagship There is no such thing as a small flagship.
    - drdaeman 4y ago
      If we're talking about actual ships, USS Constitution is tiny compared to most US Navy ships ;) (Not sure how good this example is, but anyway - flagship doesn't have to be physically giant.)
    - mikestew 4y ago
      It would probably be useful to read the whole article that one links to, because there's no flagship small enough to fit in your pocket, unless...: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagship#Flagship_as_metaphor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagship#Flagship_as_metaphor Now, whether an iPhone Mini fits into that metaphor can be debated, but it's just a metaphor, after all. :-)
- fredophile 4y ago
  Your argument suggests that there are actually 2 smart phone markets. One for iPhones, one for everything else. I think this is a fairly reasonable assumption for the majority of consumers. Let's assume very few people are switching ecosystems at this point based on form factor. That would mean Apple made a new product to cannibalize 5% of their existing market. No similar product exists in the android ecosystem. It seems reasonable that an android phone maker could get similar market share but have these sales come from a combination of their existing sales and competitors sales.
- guywhocodes 4y ago
  I know more than a few people who got Iphones only because there were no or too hard to find Android phones in a smaller form factor. I wouldn't be surprised if at least half of that 5% would switch back in the no-mini scenario
moonchrome 4y ago
>That is more than enough demand to cover the NREs and costs of making a phone. Then why is Apple dropping it ?
- jazzyjackson 4y ago
  because covering costs is not the same as maximizing profit
- scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago
  I half suspect that Apple will be coming back with another small phone a few years down the line and then a cycle will continue where they will always have something like an SE or mini, but it won't ever be flagship level.
  - dylan-m 4y ago
    I feel like that has been the problem with the Mini. I love mine (which I got because I was fed up with Pixel and Android in general), but I know I only have it because I got in at the right time. My wife bought an iPhone at the wrong time and hers is comically large. She would have happily bought an iPhone Mini if it had been available that year. By the time she needs a new iPhone, it will be another year where the only options are gigantic.
microtonal 4y ago
Agreed. I hope the rumors are false and that they'll continue to make the Mini. However, 5% does not mean much if market research proves that those people would buy a regular iPhone anyway if they drop the Mini. I think there is also some competition with the iPhone SE. Even though the Mini is not intended to be a budget phone, it is 100 Euro cheaper than the non-mini. So, I can imagine a chunk of people would buy it for its lower price if the iPhone SE didn't exist. Even more if you consider that the Mini actually has a larger screen than the SE.
- d3nj4l 4y ago
  It's as good as guaranteed that the mini won't be returning this year - dummy models of the upcoming line which are used to size cases have made their way to the usual leakers, and even before that the front panels of the line were leaked. No mini, unfortunately :/
  - rekoil 4y ago
    That said, Apple does tend to keep their designs for a fair while, so it's possible there will be one next year, or that it will become the new SE at some point. I really really want a Pro Mini :(
    - Bud 4y ago
      You won't get one, unfortunately, both because there's no motivation for Apple to make it, and because battery life would be an insurmountable issue, at least with current tech. The battery life in the Mini is already significantly inferior to the other iPhones in the line; Apple's only going to be willing to push that so far before it's an obviously-compromised product and they would just refuse to ship it.
  - hbn 4y ago
    I'd be fine if they made it a biennial release. I don't need to upgrade my phone more than that anyway. I feel like my plan right now is to hope with the iPhone 14 launch, the 13 mini will continue to be sold with a price drop, and then I'll upgrade my 12 mini to the 13 mini and get the battery improvement. I love the size of this phone and hope I'm never forced back to the gigantic "normal-sized" phones that we've gotten stuck with the past decade.
achow 4y ago
Hold on; the math is not that easy. For one - most of the iPhone Mini sale is because of 'Halo effect', die hard fans who anyway would have bought an iPhone, bought the mini version. An Android phone maker will not have that brand pull or halo effect to establish a new category, so it would be no where near that 10M number. Second, iPhone or Mac devices are known for hardware and software integration. That translates among other things to good battery life (similar to RAM. Apple never talks about RAM). iPhone Mini has been weak in battery department [1], one of the factor in its low sale as compared to bigger device. A Mini Android device will have mini batteries, that means it will have no chance in h* to last through the day - the minimum requirement in this day and age. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/20/apple-iphone-13-mini-review-camera-performance#:~:text=The%20battery%20doesn't%20last,for%20a%20phone%20this%20small https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/20/apple-iph....
- minusf 4y ago
  > iPhone Mini has been weak in battery department might have been true for mini 12, but mini 13 has amazing battery life, certainly nothing like 2020 SE which is truly abysmal.
- elorant 4y ago
  If you’re a diehard fan why would you buy a subpar phone, and not the latest flagship? Smaller phones imply less usage because some things aren’t as pleasant as on a bigger screen.
  - buildsjets 4y ago
    I guess I am a diehard fan of only small iPhones, as since 2007 my lineup has been: iPhone 3, iPhone 3Gs, iPhone 4, iPhone 5, iPhone SE, and currently 12 Mini. As far as I am concerned, the mini IS the flagship. I would never even consider buying one of the larger models, as I consider them to be subpar, unpleasant devices to carry and to use. I'd choose to carry no phone over having to carry a full-sized phone, they have become too large to be considered conveniently portable. For me, the perfect smart phone would be the same size and shape as a credit card, edge-to-edge screen on all sides, and approximately 3mm thick. And it would run iOS of course.
cercatrova 4y ago
But you're not Apple though.

DANK_YACHT 4y ago

5% seems quite small and not worth the trouble. It might be worth it if a small phone generated 5% in additional sales, but most people buying a small iPhone would likely buy a normal-sized iPhone if no small version was available rather than making the switch to Android.

blairbeckwith 4y ago
The point is that 5% (or 10m phones) does not make sense for Apple to continue to build, but that has no relation to whether it's worth it to another company.
ncallaway 4y ago
5% of 100 phones is 5 phones. 5% of 200,000,000 is 10,000,000. 5% can be a huge number, or a tiny number, depending on what it's 5% of. I switched from Android to Apple specifically for the iPhone mini, and if they killed it, I would switch to the smallest phone on the market.
- DANK_YACHT 4y ago
  My point is that 5% is probably an irrelevant number because it’s not 5% additional sales. If the mini wasn’t available, many people would get a normal iPhone instead of switch to Android. So the net sales is closer to 0. Apple seems to agree with this sentiment and there will be no mini starting with the iPhone 14: https://9to5mac.com/2022/03/14/exclusive-iphone-14-coming-in-four-models-without-mini-version-pro-models-with-taller-screen-satellite-features-still-coming/amp/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/03/14/exclusive-iphone-14-coming-in... Good luck with your switch.
  - criddell 4y ago
    That's why I picked up an iPhone 13 Mini. It's a really great phone and when I need a new phone six years from now, I'm hoping there's something as good to replace it.
  - nostromo 4y ago
    Phone sales aren’t driven by switching, and haven’t been for a while, they’re about upgrading. Apple knows this better than anyone. For example: I upgrade my phone every two years or so, so long as I like the new phones. If I don’t like the new phones, I wait as long as possible. People that like smaller phones won’t necessarily leave the iPhone if they kill the Mini - they will just keep their current phones for as long as possible. And that can indeed hurt sales, even if Apple doesn’t lose market share.
- 4ggr0 4y ago
  I switched to Apple after 10 years of using Android. Wanted to have a good and small phone, which the 12 mini is. Was a hard decision, because my Android was rooted with LineageOS, was able to block ads and all kinds of nice things. But ultimately, it just pissed me off too much to carry around a bulky phone (Fairphone 3). Fairly happy with the 12 mini, just don't like the Apple ecosystem that much.
- brewdad 4y ago
  Is there a world where the iPhone mini is necessary or desirable when the iPhone SE also exists? I don't see a need for both, especially when they run the same processor under the hood.
  - isoprophlex 4y ago
    Optics on the 13 mini are significantly better!
  - ska 4y ago
    Doesn't the SE have an significantly worse & smaller screen (not to mention camera), although it's a slightly larger package? SE is clearly a 'budget' (at least for apple) phone. Some people really want a small phone that isn't.
  - gonehome 4y ago
    The mini is a flagship phone with flagship specs and better design. The newest SE is substantially larger and worse. I love my mini, but it’s also clear this is the last one.
  - robertoandred 4y ago
    The current SE is bigger than the mini.
  - dont__panic 4y ago
    I use an iPhone SE 2016, which uses the same chassis as the iPhone 5/5s. I tried an iPhone 6S for a year before I got this phone. Couldn't stand the size. The current SE is the same size as the 6S. I'm basically stuck at a dead-end of phone size. The current SE is not compact by historical standards. I'm not saying all phones need to be smaller, I just want one decent option.
  - buildsjets 4y ago
    The iPhone SE is a full-sized phone. It just happens to be obsolete in the marketplace, and the other full-sized phones it competes against have become even fuller sized.
vvillena 4y ago
If the iPhone mini is managing to capture all of the "I want a small flagship phone" market, it's worth it. As long as the Mini exists, it's impossible for other manufacturers to try and compete.
- auggierose 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagship There is no such thing as a small flagship.
  - drdaeman 4y ago
    If we're talking about actual ships, USS Constitution is tiny compared to most US Navy ships ;) (Not sure how good this example is, but anyway - flagship doesn't have to be physically giant.)
  - mikestew 4y ago
    It would probably be useful to read the whole article that one links to, because there's no flagship small enough to fit in your pocket, unless...: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagship#Flagship_as_metaphor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagship#Flagship_as_metaphor Now, whether an iPhone Mini fits into that metaphor can be debated, but it's just a metaphor, after all. :-)
fredophile 4y ago
Your argument suggests that there are actually 2 smart phone markets. One for iPhones, one for everything else. I think this is a fairly reasonable assumption for the majority of consumers. Let's assume very few people are switching ecosystems at this point based on form factor. That would mean Apple made a new product to cannibalize 5% of their existing market. No similar product exists in the android ecosystem. It seems reasonable that an android phone maker could get similar market share but have these sales come from a combination of their existing sales and competitors sales.
guywhocodes 4y ago
I know more than a few people who got Iphones only because there were no or too hard to find Android phones in a smaller form factor. I wouldn't be surprised if at least half of that 5% would switch back in the no-mini scenario

moonchrome 4y ago

>That is more than enough demand to cover the NREs and costs of making a phone. Then why is Apple dropping it ?

jazzyjackson 4y ago
because covering costs is not the same as maximizing profit
scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago
I half suspect that Apple will be coming back with another small phone a few years down the line and then a cycle will continue where they will always have something like an SE or mini, but it won't ever be flagship level.
- dylan-m 4y ago
  I feel like that has been the problem with the Mini. I love mine (which I got because I was fed up with Pixel and Android in general), but I know I only have it because I got in at the right time. My wife bought an iPhone at the wrong time and hers is comically large. She would have happily bought an iPhone Mini if it had been available that year. By the time she needs a new iPhone, it will be another year where the only options are gigantic.

microtonal 4y ago

Agreed. I hope the rumors are false and that they'll continue to make the Mini. However, 5% does not mean much if market research proves that those people would buy a regular iPhone anyway if they drop the Mini. I think there is also some competition with the iPhone SE. Even though the Mini is not intended to be a budget phone, it is 100 Euro cheaper than the non-mini. So, I can imagine a chunk of people would buy it for its lower price if the iPhone SE didn't exist. Even more if you consider that the Mini actually has a larger screen than the SE.

d3nj4l 4y ago
It's as good as guaranteed that the mini won't be returning this year - dummy models of the upcoming line which are used to size cases have made their way to the usual leakers, and even before that the front panels of the line were leaked. No mini, unfortunately :/
- rekoil 4y ago
  That said, Apple does tend to keep their designs for a fair while, so it's possible there will be one next year, or that it will become the new SE at some point. I really really want a Pro Mini :(
  - Bud 4y ago
    You won't get one, unfortunately, both because there's no motivation for Apple to make it, and because battery life would be an insurmountable issue, at least with current tech. The battery life in the Mini is already significantly inferior to the other iPhones in the line; Apple's only going to be willing to push that so far before it's an obviously-compromised product and they would just refuse to ship it.
- hbn 4y ago
  I'd be fine if they made it a biennial release. I don't need to upgrade my phone more than that anyway. I feel like my plan right now is to hope with the iPhone 14 launch, the 13 mini will continue to be sold with a price drop, and then I'll upgrade my 12 mini to the 13 mini and get the battery improvement. I love the size of this phone and hope I'm never forced back to the gigantic "normal-sized" phones that we've gotten stuck with the past decade.

achow 4y ago

Hold on; the math is not that easy. For one - most of the iPhone Mini sale is because of 'Halo effect', die hard fans who anyway would have bought an iPhone, bought the mini version. An Android phone maker will not have that brand pull or halo effect to establish a new category, so it would be no where near that 10M number. Second, iPhone or Mac devices are known for hardware and software integration. That translates among other things to good battery life (similar to RAM. Apple never talks about RAM). iPhone Mini has been weak in battery department [1], one of the factor in its low sale as compared to bigger device. A Mini Android device will have mini batteries, that means it will have no chance in h* to last through the day - the minimum requirement in this day and age. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/20/apple-iphone-13-mini-review-camera-performance#:~:text=The%20battery%20doesn't%20last,for%20a%20phone%20this%20small https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/20/apple-iph....

minusf 4y ago
> iPhone Mini has been weak in battery department might have been true for mini 12, but mini 13 has amazing battery life, certainly nothing like 2020 SE which is truly abysmal.
elorant 4y ago
If you’re a diehard fan why would you buy a subpar phone, and not the latest flagship? Smaller phones imply less usage because some things aren’t as pleasant as on a bigger screen.
- buildsjets 4y ago
  I guess I am a diehard fan of only small iPhones, as since 2007 my lineup has been: iPhone 3, iPhone 3Gs, iPhone 4, iPhone 5, iPhone SE, and currently 12 Mini. As far as I am concerned, the mini IS the flagship. I would never even consider buying one of the larger models, as I consider them to be subpar, unpleasant devices to carry and to use. I'd choose to carry no phone over having to carry a full-sized phone, they have become too large to be considered conveniently portable. For me, the perfect smart phone would be the same size and shape as a credit card, edge-to-edge screen on all sides, and approximately 3mm thick. And it would run iOS of course.

cercatrova 4y ago

But you're not Apple though.