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Congratulations on the release! It’s cool to see more outliners with multi-item text selection. The “fluid” animations look really delightful — I’m jealous! I k

by jitl 4y ago

Congratulations on the release! It’s cool to see more outliners with multi-item text selection. The “fluid” animations look really delightful — I’m jealous! I know you’ve shared some details about the animation implementation, but I’m curious about how much system stuff you take advantage of. Is your view accessible through VoiceOver? What parts of the Cocoa text system do you use (or, what do you use instead for layout and shaping)? (https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/TextFonts/Conceptual/CocoaTextArchitecture/TextSystemArchitecture/ArchitectureOverview.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40009459-CH7-CJBJHGAG https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Te...) I think you started working on this around the time I was working on multi-block text selection in Notion. I remember seeing a preview tweet in a Andy Matuschak thread and thinking “great minds!”. When I started working on it, I was so surprised that no outliner I tested had multi-item text selection! It’s a unique fusion. I’m curious about how you handled deletions across different indent levels… Do you know of any other outliners with it besides Bike and Notion?

jessegrosjean 4y ago
Thanks! Bike's editor is pretty much: OutlinerLayer RowLayers LineFragmentLayers I use CoreText to line break and render into each LineFragmentLayer. A whole new level of performance is possible if I knew more metal/opengl, but right now rendering text on CPU and sending as line fragments to CoreAnimation. > Do you know of any other outliners with it besides Bike and Notion? It's hard to define "outliner". This has been a main feature of TaskPaper for a long time... but TaskPaper is maybe a bit more "text editor" than outliner. Also tools like orgmode and probably lots more are pretty much outliners and also have all text editor features. But yeah, for tools that feel more like an outliner it's not a common feature. In particular Bike even allows you too over indent and movies lines around without moving children. I think that's pretty unique, and goes together with multiline selection in Bike's case.
- burntcaramel 4y ago
  I imagine then you would had to reimplement behaviour for text selection from scratch? Impressive stuff!
  - jessegrosjean 4y ago
    Yes, all the basic needed to be implemented. Impressive or dumb or maybe just persistent.

by jitl 4y ago

jessegrosjean 4y ago

Thanks! Bike's editor is pretty much: OutlinerLayer RowLayers LineFragmentLayers I use CoreText to line break and render into each LineFragmentLayer. A whole new level of performance is possible if I knew more metal/opengl, but right now rendering text on CPU and sending as line fragments to CoreAnimation. > Do you know of any other outliners with it besides Bike and Notion? It's hard to define "outliner". This has been a main feature of TaskPaper for a long time... but TaskPaper is maybe a bit more "text editor" than outliner. Also tools like orgmode and probably lots more are pretty much outliners and also have all text editor features. But yeah, for tools that feel more like an outliner it's not a common feature. In particular Bike even allows you too over indent and movies lines around without moving children. I think that's pretty unique, and goes together with multiline selection in Bike's case.

burntcaramel 4y ago
I imagine then you would had to reimplement behaviour for text selection from scratch? Impressive stuff!
- jessegrosjean 4y ago
  Yes, all the basic needed to be implemented. Impressive or dumb or maybe just persistent.