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That stock market and real estate bubble is meaningful? It's better for the economy to let people save, instead of forcing them to invest just to escape inflati

by Geee 4y ago

That stock market and real estate bubble is meaningful? It's better for the economy to let people save, instead of forcing them to invest just to escape inflation. No, money has strong network effects an tends to one.

rglullis 4y ago
> That stock That stock market and real estate bubble is meaningful? and real estate bubble is meaningful? Correlation is not causation. Japan has fiat currency and has not had significant inflation for decades. Housing is affordable. It's not just because most countries have "bad" monetary policy involving fiat currency that makes it impossible to have "good" monetary policy. > money has strong network effects In relation to currencies controlled by central banks? When used by governments as single legal tender? Perhaps. But just look at any chart and see how BTC market cap relative to the rest of the crypto keeps going down. The number of Ethereum wallets is already larger than BTC. BTC is not the dominant chain anymore. Whatever advantage it had in terms of "network effects", it is evaporated. BTC is a failed experiment. It failed as a currency and it never was a "store of value". And let's not even get on the topic of how BTC price is so heavily manipulated by Tether, to the point that exchanges should only display BTC/USDT if they honestly wanted to reflect their dependence on Tether's "fractional reserve". We will wait until they crash to see how the maxis will be crying that Tether is too big to fail or something like it.
- Geee 4y ago
  Bitcoin doesn't have competition. Ethereum isn't money, and doesn't try to be money. Why would Bitcoin be the most affected by Tether? USDT is used on all markets. It seems that Ethereum, DeFi, NFTs etc. have way more of shady stuff going on.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    I didn't say anything about "trying to be money", and for the purposes of the debate it doesn't matter. BTC already failed at what it tries to be, anyway, there is no point in arguing semantics. Re: Tether. They were constantly touting that their reserves were in BTC. When it depegs, BTC is the first that is going to crater.
    - Geee 4y ago
      Bitcoin is money, it doesn't try to be anything. It has succeeded far beoynd any expectations. Not true. Tether should have USD equivalent reserves, but I don't care about them. I don't care if they go bust.
      - rglullis 4y ago
        How can you say that it works as money, if (e.g) when Tesla announced they were accepting BTC for payments, but they would not return the same amount of BTC if a return request was made and the price of BTC changed since the payment? > Tether should have USD equivalent reserves Should, but they don't. At least since 2019 they already dropped all pretenses of having USD to back all USDT they minted. With the bull run started in 2020, they've used it as justification for all their wild minting with the price of the BTC. Whenever the price of BTC started to go down, they would "miraculously" mint a bunch of USDT and use to buy more BTC - in a clear attempt of market manipulation. You are saying you don't care if they go bust, but you should at least be honest with yourself and be open to the possibility that all the market for crypto is built on a lie. The upcoming crash will be entirely on them.
        Geee 4y ago
        Yes, I know it's volatile and has practical issues. It gets better every day, because it's just a matter of maturing in the market. The primary purpose of money is to be a store of value, which it has done very well, from 2009 to this day. USDT minting means that someone buys USDT with USD. There's nothing funny going on. Most of the USD in this market is invisible, because it's on exchanges, not in stablecoins. There's also USDC and BUSD, which are combined as big as USDT. I hope Tether falls, if that means cheaper Bitcoin.
        rglullis 4y ago
        > USDT minting means that someone buys USDT with USD. No, it does not. Even themselves admitted it. They have minted before just based on the "value of their reserves", which no one can really verify. If you continue with arguments that are provably false and blatant circular logic, I think I am done here.

by Geee 4y ago

rglullis 4y ago

> That stock That stock market and real estate bubble is meaningful? and real estate bubble is meaningful? Correlation is not causation. Japan has fiat currency and has not had significant inflation for decades. Housing is affordable. It's not just because most countries have "bad" monetary policy involving fiat currency that makes it impossible to have "good" monetary policy. > money has strong network effects In relation to currencies controlled by central banks? When used by governments as single legal tender? Perhaps. But just look at any chart and see how BTC market cap relative to the rest of the crypto keeps going down. The number of Ethereum wallets is already larger than BTC. BTC is not the dominant chain anymore. Whatever advantage it had in terms of "network effects", it is evaporated. BTC is a failed experiment. It failed as a currency and it never was a "store of value". And let's not even get on the topic of how BTC price is so heavily manipulated by Tether, to the point that exchanges should only display BTC/USDT if they honestly wanted to reflect their dependence on Tether's "fractional reserve". We will wait until they crash to see how the maxis will be crying that Tether is too big to fail or something like it.

Geee 4y ago
Bitcoin doesn't have competition. Ethereum isn't money, and doesn't try to be money. Why would Bitcoin be the most affected by Tether? USDT is used on all markets. It seems that Ethereum, DeFi, NFTs etc. have way more of shady stuff going on.
- rglullis 4y ago
  I didn't say anything about "trying to be money", and for the purposes of the debate it doesn't matter. BTC already failed at what it tries to be, anyway, there is no point in arguing semantics. Re: Tether. They were constantly touting that their reserves were in BTC. When it depegs, BTC is the first that is going to crater.
  - Geee 4y ago
    Bitcoin is money, it doesn't try to be anything. It has succeeded far beoynd any expectations. Not true. Tether should have USD equivalent reserves, but I don't care about them. I don't care if they go bust.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      How can you say that it works as money, if (e.g) when Tesla announced they were accepting BTC for payments, but they would not return the same amount of BTC if a return request was made and the price of BTC changed since the payment? > Tether should have USD equivalent reserves Should, but they don't. At least since 2019 they already dropped all pretenses of having USD to back all USDT they minted. With the bull run started in 2020, they've used it as justification for all their wild minting with the price of the BTC. Whenever the price of BTC started to go down, they would "miraculously" mint a bunch of USDT and use to buy more BTC - in a clear attempt of market manipulation. You are saying you don't care if they go bust, but you should at least be honest with yourself and be open to the possibility that all the market for crypto is built on a lie. The upcoming crash will be entirely on them.
      - Geee 4y ago
        Yes, I know it's volatile and has practical issues. It gets better every day, because it's just a matter of maturing in the market. The primary purpose of money is to be a store of value, which it has done very well, from 2009 to this day. USDT minting means that someone buys USDT with USD. There's nothing funny going on. Most of the USD in this market is invisible, because it's on exchanges, not in stablecoins. There's also USDC and BUSD, which are combined as big as USDT. I hope Tether falls, if that means cheaper Bitcoin.
        rglullis 4y ago
        > USDT minting means that someone buys USDT with USD. No, it does not. Even themselves admitted it. They have minted before just based on the "value of their reserves", which no one can really verify. If you continue with arguments that are provably false and blatant circular logic, I think I am done here.