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I will never understand why ideas like this - both completely detached from reality and actively harmful to the people who espouse them - have become so popular

I will never understand why ideas like this - both completely detached from reality and actively harmful to the people who espouse them - have become so popular on Reddit.

HWR_14 4y ago
There are a couple of orthogonal ideas in there, so I don't know what you're referring to. That economists isn't a science? That most economists are propagandists? That human societies tend to form a pyramid?
- AussieWog93 4y ago
  The main idea that I took offence to was the "economic incel" ideology - ie that the our entire society is nothing more than a tool for siphoning resources from the "underclass" into the hands of a few dozen multi-billionaires, and therefore if one engages in any productive activity beyond the absolute minimum necessary to survive, they're a sucker. It's popular on various front-page(!!!) subreddits like r/antiwork and r/latestagecapitalism. I say "incel" there very deliberately. It's a set of toxic beliefs that prevents the formation of normal, healthy economic relationships, and this reinforces the toxic beliefs in a positive feedback loop. I've seen a friend get sucked into this and it was (still is) absolutely devastating.
  - chillacy 4y ago
    The worst part is that it’s entirely narrative, so not really disprovable in the same way that “it is raining outside right now” is. And it is like you said self fulfilling, where the world makes more sense the less economic success one has, and the narrative provides no moral option to changing one’s economic status within the system.
    - AussieWog93 4y ago
      >the narrative provides no moral option to changing one’s economic status within the system. This is where my friend is right now. It really, really sucks.
Enginerrrd 4y ago
[flagged]
- guerrilla 4y ago
  This comment is just both a personal attack and straw man and doesn't address anything in the original comment or the topic at hand.
  - Enginerrrd 4y ago
    I disagree. My comment is about the phrase: >"In a larger sense, academia and a big chunk of contemporary western "culture" is all about coming up with stories, narratives, explanations, mindsets (frameworks) to ignore the exploitation of humans as a resource for the sake of ill-defined (by design) notions of "the group" or "us all" when in fact the end result is a big hierarchical pyramid with little room at the top which requires lots and lots of desperate people at the bottom" This notion that capitalism and gainful employment is all some fundamental exploitation of people is really common on Reddit. I encounter it all the time. This idea, and those which cluster around it, really could be quoted in just a slightly rephrased version out of the works of Marx and Engels. I noticed this sentiment started really picking up around 2016, and I consider it a public duty to temper it with the reality check that it is absolutely communist in nature. So... since I'm discussing a general trend on Reddit, I'm not sure how you considered it a personal attack. Other than perhaps the preconceived notion that "communism=bad" and therefore labeling it as such is an "attack"? I also fail to understand how this is a straw man? The comment above me and above that one were both already discussing this. Noting that the sentiment is deeply connected to communist ideology is I think quite relevant. Is it that you consider communism to be an easily defeatable and unrelated idea to the one I was discussing? Since I think they are in fact VERY related, I don't think the straw man applies. And since communism has captured the minds of many, many people over last century, I don't see how it's easily defeated either.
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  This comment confuses Leninism/Bolshevism with communism. The writer would do well to understand the nuances of authoritarianism across all flavors of communism before making generalizations from specifics.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Workaccount2 4y ago
rilezg 4y ago
Could you elaborate? I'm not sure how calling an idea 'detached from reality and actively harmful' and then vaguely referencing a different social media platform contributes anything.
- boppo1 4y ago
  He did and the comment was removed. It didn't seem terrible, I don't know why it was removed. I responded to it and then it was gone.
greenie_beans 4y ago
this is hackernews

I will never understand why ideas like this - both completely detached from reality and actively harmful to the people who espouse them - have become so popular on Reddit.

HWR_14 4y ago

There are a couple of orthogonal ideas in there, so I don't know what you're referring to. That economists isn't a science? That most economists are propagandists? That human societies tend to form a pyramid?

AussieWog93 4y ago
The main idea that I took offence to was the "economic incel" ideology - ie that the our entire society is nothing more than a tool for siphoning resources from the "underclass" into the hands of a few dozen multi-billionaires, and therefore if one engages in any productive activity beyond the absolute minimum necessary to survive, they're a sucker. It's popular on various front-page(!!!) subreddits like r/antiwork and r/latestagecapitalism. I say "incel" there very deliberately. It's a set of toxic beliefs that prevents the formation of normal, healthy economic relationships, and this reinforces the toxic beliefs in a positive feedback loop. I've seen a friend get sucked into this and it was (still is) absolutely devastating.
- chillacy 4y ago
  The worst part is that it’s entirely narrative, so not really disprovable in the same way that “it is raining outside right now” is. And it is like you said self fulfilling, where the world makes more sense the less economic success one has, and the narrative provides no moral option to changing one’s economic status within the system.
  - AussieWog93 4y ago
    >the narrative provides no moral option to changing one’s economic status within the system. This is where my friend is right now. It really, really sucks.

Enginerrrd 4y ago

[flagged]

guerrilla 4y ago
This comment is just both a personal attack and straw man and doesn't address anything in the original comment or the topic at hand.
- Enginerrrd 4y ago
  I disagree. My comment is about the phrase: >"In a larger sense, academia and a big chunk of contemporary western "culture" is all about coming up with stories, narratives, explanations, mindsets (frameworks) to ignore the exploitation of humans as a resource for the sake of ill-defined (by design) notions of "the group" or "us all" when in fact the end result is a big hierarchical pyramid with little room at the top which requires lots and lots of desperate people at the bottom" This notion that capitalism and gainful employment is all some fundamental exploitation of people is really common on Reddit. I encounter it all the time. This idea, and those which cluster around it, really could be quoted in just a slightly rephrased version out of the works of Marx and Engels. I noticed this sentiment started really picking up around 2016, and I consider it a public duty to temper it with the reality check that it is absolutely communist in nature. So... since I'm discussing a general trend on Reddit, I'm not sure how you considered it a personal attack. Other than perhaps the preconceived notion that "communism=bad" and therefore labeling it as such is an "attack"? I also fail to understand how this is a straw man? The comment above me and above that one were both already discussing this. Noting that the sentiment is deeply connected to communist ideology is I think quite relevant. Is it that you consider communism to be an easily defeatable and unrelated idea to the one I was discussing? Since I think they are in fact VERY related, I don't think the straw man applies. And since communism has captured the minds of many, many people over last century, I don't see how it's easily defeated either.
kelseyfrog 4y ago
This comment confuses Leninism/Bolshevism with communism. The writer would do well to understand the nuances of authoritarianism across all flavors of communism before making generalizations from specifics.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Workaccount2 4y ago

rilezg 4y ago

Could you elaborate? I'm not sure how calling an idea 'detached from reality and actively harmful' and then vaguely referencing a different social media platform contributes anything.

boppo1 4y ago
He did and the comment was removed. It didn't seem terrible, I don't know why it was removed. I responded to it and then it was gone.

greenie_beans 4y ago

this is hackernews