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I'm not saying that economic development isn't possible with fiat currency. What I'm saying is that fiat currency is immoral; it's a form of slavery. It disince

by Geee 4y ago

I'm not saying that economic development isn't possible with fiat currency. What I'm saying is that fiat currency is immoral; it's a form of slavery. It disincentivizes people from saving and taking responsibility, and accelerates consumption and throwaway culture. Because of this, people are overworked and the climate and the planet suffers. Meanwhile, wealth is siphoned to the elite. If people are denied the use of gold as money, then they can't. There are many regions, where citizens are basically prisoned by their central bank, and can't use gold or US dollars. Also, Switzerland used gold backed currency until 1999, and they are one of the richest countries per capita. There's no reason to believe that they would have done better with a fiat currency. > There is corruption and inefficiency at every level, but I fail to see how that would change by going back to the gold standard or cryptocurrencies for that matter. Self-custodied Bitcoin is impossible to inflate. > Meanwhile, the imperfect system we have has shown itself to be at least robust to major hiccups recently. Disagree. We are now entering a long period of depression.

rglullis 4y ago
> It disincentivizes people from saving There is no virtue in saving. Money that is hoarded reduces "consumption" but also reduces "meaningful" investments, no matter your definition of "meaningful" and "wasteful". > Bitcoin is impossible to inflate, like gold. Or Litecoin. Or Bitcoin Cash, or BSV. Individually, they are all "fixed supply", but as whole, any crypto currency that enters the market and gets traded should be counted as part of the asset reserves. Unless, of course, we get some central entity to force everyone else to adopt the Highlander approach and claim "there can be only one"... Oopsies.
- Geee 4y ago
  That stock market and real estate bubble is meaningful? It's better for the economy to let people save, instead of forcing them to invest just to escape inflation. No, money has strong network effects an tends to one.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    > That stock That stock market and real estate bubble is meaningful? and real estate bubble is meaningful? Correlation is not causation. Japan has fiat currency and has not had significant inflation for decades. Housing is affordable. It's not just because most countries have "bad" monetary policy involving fiat currency that makes it impossible to have "good" monetary policy. > money has strong network effects In relation to currencies controlled by central banks? When used by governments as single legal tender? Perhaps. But just look at any chart and see how BTC market cap relative to the rest of the crypto keeps going down. The number of Ethereum wallets is already larger than BTC. BTC is not the dominant chain anymore. Whatever advantage it had in terms of "network effects", it is evaporated. BTC is a failed experiment. It failed as a currency and it never was a "store of value". And let's not even get on the topic of how BTC price is so heavily manipulated by Tether, to the point that exchanges should only display BTC/USDT if they honestly wanted to reflect their dependence on Tether's "fractional reserve". We will wait until they crash to see how the maxis will be crying that Tether is too big to fail or something like it.
    - Geee 4y ago
      Bitcoin doesn't have competition. Ethereum isn't money, and doesn't try to be money. Why would Bitcoin be the most affected by Tether? USDT is used on all markets. It seems that Ethereum, DeFi, NFTs etc. have way more of shady stuff going on.
      - rglullis 4y ago
        I didn't say anything about "trying to be money", and for the purposes of the debate it doesn't matter. BTC already failed at what it tries to be, anyway, there is no point in arguing semantics. Re: Tether. They were constantly touting that their reserves were in BTC. When it depegs, BTC is the first that is going to crater.
        Geee 4y ago
        Bitcoin is money, it doesn't try to be anything. It has succeeded far beoynd any expectations. Not true. Tether should have USD equivalent reserves, but I don't care about them. I don't care if they go bust.

by Geee 4y ago

rglullis 4y ago

> It disincentivizes people from saving There is no virtue in saving. Money that is hoarded reduces "consumption" but also reduces "meaningful" investments, no matter your definition of "meaningful" and "wasteful". > Bitcoin is impossible to inflate, like gold. Or Litecoin. Or Bitcoin Cash, or BSV. Individually, they are all "fixed supply", but as whole, any crypto currency that enters the market and gets traded should be counted as part of the asset reserves. Unless, of course, we get some central entity to force everyone else to adopt the Highlander approach and claim "there can be only one"... Oopsies.

Geee 4y ago
That stock market and real estate bubble is meaningful? It's better for the economy to let people save, instead of forcing them to invest just to escape inflation. No, money has strong network effects an tends to one.
- rglullis 4y ago
  > That stock That stock market and real estate bubble is meaningful? and real estate bubble is meaningful? Correlation is not causation. Japan has fiat currency and has not had significant inflation for decades. Housing is affordable. It's not just because most countries have "bad" monetary policy involving fiat currency that makes it impossible to have "good" monetary policy. > money has strong network effects In relation to currencies controlled by central banks? When used by governments as single legal tender? Perhaps. But just look at any chart and see how BTC market cap relative to the rest of the crypto keeps going down. The number of Ethereum wallets is already larger than BTC. BTC is not the dominant chain anymore. Whatever advantage it had in terms of "network effects", it is evaporated. BTC is a failed experiment. It failed as a currency and it never was a "store of value". And let's not even get on the topic of how BTC price is so heavily manipulated by Tether, to the point that exchanges should only display BTC/USDT if they honestly wanted to reflect their dependence on Tether's "fractional reserve". We will wait until they crash to see how the maxis will be crying that Tether is too big to fail or something like it.
  - Geee 4y ago
    Bitcoin doesn't have competition. Ethereum isn't money, and doesn't try to be money. Why would Bitcoin be the most affected by Tether? USDT is used on all markets. It seems that Ethereum, DeFi, NFTs etc. have way more of shady stuff going on.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      I didn't say anything about "trying to be money", and for the purposes of the debate it doesn't matter. BTC already failed at what it tries to be, anyway, there is no point in arguing semantics. Re: Tether. They were constantly touting that their reserves were in BTC. When it depegs, BTC is the first that is going to crater.
      - Geee 4y ago
        Bitcoin is money, it doesn't try to be anything. It has succeeded far beoynd any expectations. Not true. Tether should have USD equivalent reserves, but I don't care about them. I don't care if they go bust.