5 ms·

> set car prices based on unlock-able features, basically what Apple has achieved with M1 on Macs Huh? it's not like you pay more for hardware that's always be

by lloeki 4y ago

> set car prices based on unlock-able features, basically what Apple has achieved with M1 on Macs Huh? it's not like you pay more for hardware that's always been present. You get exactly the same CPU from entry level M1 to fully specc'd M1. It's not like you could turn a M1 into a M1 Pro or a M1 Max by flicking a switch or blowing a fuse, because the hardware is just not there. Compare that with BMW who builds and sells cars with heater seats that you software unlock, but the hardware is already there, which is ridiculous. At that point all cars could have it enabled and it would barely make a dent in the price as the uniform assembly line that produces economies of scale is already in place. This is what Mazda is doing, basically you have two, maybe three trim levels, sometimes only one, fully specc'd, and that's it.

rb666 4y ago
It makes perfect sense for BMW, if indeed it's more expensive to make 800 cars with heated seats plus 200 without, over 1000 with heated seats (standardized).
- hef19898 4y ago
  Thanks to JIT and JIS, just-in-sequence the 200 non-heated once actually are cheaper. They cannot be sold as Seats as a service, nor can they be re-sold with heated seats after their leasing period ended. So all the SaaS model has to do is geberating enough profit to off set the higher cost of heated seats installed but not paid for. After that the re-sale value, for BMW, is higher and this whole stunt is a net positive for BMW.
- lloeki 4y ago
  > make 800 cars with heated seats plus 200 without, over 1000 with heated seats (standardized) At that point you can spread the cost over 1000 instead of keep selling 800 at a higher price to cover for the 200. I also guess Pareto goes the other way (200 heated + 800 non-heated), which only makes it worse.
- pegasus 4y ago
  The fact that it doesn't make sense to the buyers should factor into whether it makese sense for the manufacturer. I would feel uncomfortable knowing I'm unnecessarily driving around a subsystem that's ultimately going to end up in the landfill unused. Unless I bite the bullet and agree to a recurring fee. Sure, many won't know or care, but then you're actively selecting for a less discerning clientele.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
    > I would feel uncomfortable knowing I'm unnecessarily driving around a subsystem that's ultimately going to end up in the landfill unused Person from Minnesota drives their car down to Florida and sells it. Buyer has no need for the car's heated seats & steering wheel, so it goes unused. Are you saying this is a problem?
pabs3 4y ago
Intel are working on CPUs where you enable features after paying a license fee: https://lwn.net/Articles/884876/ https://lwn.net/Articles/884876/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30394918 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30394918
- lloeki 4y ago
- abdouls 4y ago
  Companies are really trying to take money from everything now...
- dtparr 4y ago
  Raspberry PIs have had a similar thing with VC-1 and MPEG-2 decoding requiring a small fee for about a decade now. In this case, to cover the patent licensing cost so as to not add it into the base hardware, but paying a fee to unlock features resident in the hardware is not new in computing. (I realize there are likely other/older ones I'm sure, but that was the first in my mind)
  - can16358p 4y ago
    Raspberry probably isn't profiting from it though, they're legally obliged to do it, and they are also trying to make their hardware cheap as possible, so making it optional in a device like RPi makes sense. I don't think the big players have the same intentions though.
  - Zenst 4y ago
    Yes and even with MPEG-2 patent expired, they are still offering that https://codecs.raspberrypi.com/mpeg-2-license-key/ https://codecs.raspberrypi.com/mpeg-2-license-key/ so not sure how that cost breaks down today.
- Zenst 4y ago
  IBM been doing that with their CPU's for a while. Current flavour of doing it is bannered under capacity on demand - https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/power8?topic=features-capacity-demand https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/power8?topic=features-capacity-d...
saveferris 4y ago
Sort of related. BMW has been doing something similar for some time. I bought a certified 2012 3 series back in 2013. New, the car had an optional package for something called Comfort and Convenience Package or something similar to that. It was mostly lighting - footwell ligting, door handles lights, some other stuff. That package was not purchased on the car I bought but all the actual lights were there and someone created a way to turn those things on using a bluetooth/OBDII connector and a laptop. I think the program was called BMW What App?? Not certain of that. Anyway, I added all the lighting stuff... I hope people don't buy these subscriptions and auto manufacturers give up on them. edit: words...
- longitudinal93 4y ago
  The app is called Bimmercode ($50)
- HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
  > auto manufacturers give up on them Unlikely. 20+ years ago I was working for a manufacturer of high end office machines and they were doing the same thing. It's been popular for a long time, just now trickling down to consumer hardware.
Zenst 4y ago
Yes the whole pay extra to unlock a feature that is already there is a big erk and whilst I can see both sides of the coin, it still has an edge too it that erks. I shudder self driving cars and the prospect that companies would pay to nudge driver routes past their shops is perhaps another future concern, one in which would be a bit evil. Just as well some companies say they will do no evil, though non spring to mind thesedays. Still, in tech the earliest type of paying to unlock a feature goes back to the 60's iirc and some storage drive that you would pay to upgrade and entailed an engineer comming out and flipping a dip switch to enable the extra capacity. Think it was some ICL kit, though was such a long time ago and never personaly experienced that beyond past down anicdotes.

by lloeki 4y ago

rb666 4y ago

It makes perfect sense for BMW, if indeed it's more expensive to make 800 cars with heated seats plus 200 without, over 1000 with heated seats (standardized).

hef19898 4y ago
Thanks to JIT and JIS, just-in-sequence the 200 non-heated once actually are cheaper. They cannot be sold as Seats as a service, nor can they be re-sold with heated seats after their leasing period ended. So all the SaaS model has to do is geberating enough profit to off set the higher cost of heated seats installed but not paid for. After that the re-sale value, for BMW, is higher and this whole stunt is a net positive for BMW.
lloeki 4y ago
> make 800 cars with heated seats plus 200 without, over 1000 with heated seats (standardized) At that point you can spread the cost over 1000 instead of keep selling 800 at a higher price to cover for the 200. I also guess Pareto goes the other way (200 heated + 800 non-heated), which only makes it worse.
pegasus 4y ago
The fact that it doesn't make sense to the buyers should factor into whether it makese sense for the manufacturer. I would feel uncomfortable knowing I'm unnecessarily driving around a subsystem that's ultimately going to end up in the landfill unused. Unless I bite the bullet and agree to a recurring fee. Sure, many won't know or care, but then you're actively selecting for a less discerning clientele.
- HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
  > I would feel uncomfortable knowing I'm unnecessarily driving around a subsystem that's ultimately going to end up in the landfill unused Person from Minnesota drives their car down to Florida and sells it. Buyer has no need for the car's heated seats & steering wheel, so it goes unused. Are you saying this is a problem?

pabs3 4y ago

Intel are working on CPUs where you enable features after paying a license fee: https://lwn.net/Articles/884876/ https://lwn.net/Articles/884876/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30394918 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30394918

lloeki 4y ago
abdouls 4y ago
Companies are really trying to take money from everything now...
dtparr 4y ago
Raspberry PIs have had a similar thing with VC-1 and MPEG-2 decoding requiring a small fee for about a decade now. In this case, to cover the patent licensing cost so as to not add it into the base hardware, but paying a fee to unlock features resident in the hardware is not new in computing. (I realize there are likely other/older ones I'm sure, but that was the first in my mind)
- can16358p 4y ago
  Raspberry probably isn't profiting from it though, they're legally obliged to do it, and they are also trying to make their hardware cheap as possible, so making it optional in a device like RPi makes sense. I don't think the big players have the same intentions though.
- Zenst 4y ago
  Yes and even with MPEG-2 patent expired, they are still offering that https://codecs.raspberrypi.com/mpeg-2-license-key/ https://codecs.raspberrypi.com/mpeg-2-license-key/ so not sure how that cost breaks down today.
Zenst 4y ago
IBM been doing that with their CPU's for a while. Current flavour of doing it is bannered under capacity on demand - https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/power8?topic=features-capacity-demand https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/power8?topic=features-capacity-d...

saveferris 4y ago

Sort of related. BMW has been doing something similar for some time. I bought a certified 2012 3 series back in 2013. New, the car had an optional package for something called Comfort and Convenience Package or something similar to that. It was mostly lighting - footwell ligting, door handles lights, some other stuff. That package was not purchased on the car I bought but all the actual lights were there and someone created a way to turn those things on using a bluetooth/OBDII connector and a laptop. I think the program was called BMW What App?? Not certain of that. Anyway, I added all the lighting stuff... I hope people don't buy these subscriptions and auto manufacturers give up on them. edit: words...

longitudinal93 4y ago
The app is called Bimmercode ($50)
HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
> auto manufacturers give up on them Unlikely. 20+ years ago I was working for a manufacturer of high end office machines and they were doing the same thing. It's been popular for a long time, just now trickling down to consumer hardware.

Zenst 4y ago

Yes the whole pay extra to unlock a feature that is already there is a big erk and whilst I can see both sides of the coin, it still has an edge too it that erks. I shudder self driving cars and the prospect that companies would pay to nudge driver routes past their shops is perhaps another future concern, one in which would be a bit evil. Just as well some companies say they will do no evil, though non spring to mind thesedays. Still, in tech the earliest type of paying to unlock a feature goes back to the 60's iirc and some storage drive that you would pay to upgrade and entailed an engineer comming out and flipping a dip switch to enable the extra capacity. Think it was some ICL kit, though was such a long time ago and never personaly experienced that beyond past down anicdotes.