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Can you clarify what is meant here by minimum standards? I'm not American. Over here in the UK no-one is stopping me from replacing my fridge with whatever fri

by throwaway22032 4y ago

Can you clarify what is meant here by minimum standards? I'm not American. Over here in the UK no-one is stopping me from replacing my fridge with whatever fridge I want. It's weird for me to imagine that this could be otherwise. Like, it's just plugged in.

TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
I think Doreen just meant expectations. There's a mildly amusing joke I don't quite recall right now about how everything in America is big. Serving sizes, houses, cars, political parties, theme parks, the people...
- DoreenMichele 4y ago
  In the case of housing standards, a lot of stuff is codified in zoning laws and such. Our legal standards for what constitutes minimum acceptable housing actively fosters homelessness and any discussion of how those standards are excessive -- even in comparison to other developed countries with high quality of life -- gets ridiculous replies completely shooting down the idea that if civilized, well heeled people in other developed countries can feed a large family with a smaller kitchen, then maybe we have room to design smaller kitchens in some of our housing units.
  - yazanobeidi 4y ago
    If one’s standards exceed what they can provide for, they are beholden to that which can. Seems to be “a feature not a bug” because as you suggest, this is actually problematic for people trying to live a simple dignified life.
  - throwaway22032 4y ago
    Ah, gotcha. IMO these standards just make no sense at all, scrap them. The market is literally designed to sort this sort of issue out - if you want a bigger kitchen pay for it, someone will provide. Artificially restricting the minimum size of dwellings is just forcing people to either overpay for housing or be homeless.
- throwaway22032 4y ago
  I guess I don't really get what is meant by 'expectations' on a country-wide scale. The US is massive and has loads of people in it. Like, there's NYC and SF and then there's rural Kansas. There's people earning $10k a year and people earning $10M. In the UK we don't have any sort of national expectation from what I can tell. I have friends living in house shares, in apartments, in houses, and in really big houses, they all have different kitchens, obviously they do. You get what you can afford, having an expectation is meaningless. If there's some sort of building code that says fridges have to be massive, then yeah, that's bloody stupid, but that's not specifically a kitchen issue, that's just anti-poor law.
DoreenMichele 4y ago
When I lived in Germany, rentals did not come with installed kitchens. As an American military wife, the US Army installed a fridge, sink, etc so I had a kitchen in one of my apartments. My German relatives told stories about moving in and having no kitchen at first. That's inconceivable in most parts of the US. Rentals here typically have a fridge that is property of the owner. And you aren't supposed to change it. Edit: To be clear, they installed a kitchen of their choosing over time. (I also cleaned up typos.)
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  Many Europeans today would scoff at the idea of not having a kitchen, FWIW. Pluggable electric stoves have made it easier, but most still want a functionable sink with drinkable tap water outside the toilet / bathroom and a few counters to prepare food on.
  - 2000UltraDeluxe 4y ago
    Yeah. I've seen some old apartments where the kitchen is basically a few shelves, a mini-refridgerator a small sink and a couple of hot plates. That's pretty much the bare minimum, though. Without a kitchen, I'd consider it a dorm room and not an apartment.

TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago

I think Doreen just meant expectations. There's a mildly amusing joke I don't quite recall right now about how everything in America is big. Serving sizes, houses, cars, political parties, theme parks, the people...

DoreenMichele 4y ago
In the case of housing standards, a lot of stuff is codified in zoning laws and such. Our legal standards for what constitutes minimum acceptable housing actively fosters homelessness and any discussion of how those standards are excessive -- even in comparison to other developed countries with high quality of life -- gets ridiculous replies completely shooting down the idea that if civilized, well heeled people in other developed countries can feed a large family with a smaller kitchen, then maybe we have room to design smaller kitchens in some of our housing units.
- yazanobeidi 4y ago
  If one’s standards exceed what they can provide for, they are beholden to that which can. Seems to be “a feature not a bug” because as you suggest, this is actually problematic for people trying to live a simple dignified life.
- throwaway22032 4y ago
  Ah, gotcha. IMO these standards just make no sense at all, scrap them. The market is literally designed to sort this sort of issue out - if you want a bigger kitchen pay for it, someone will provide. Artificially restricting the minimum size of dwellings is just forcing people to either overpay for housing or be homeless.
throwaway22032 4y ago
I guess I don't really get what is meant by 'expectations' on a country-wide scale. The US is massive and has loads of people in it. Like, there's NYC and SF and then there's rural Kansas. There's people earning $10k a year and people earning $10M. In the UK we don't have any sort of national expectation from what I can tell. I have friends living in house shares, in apartments, in houses, and in really big houses, they all have different kitchens, obviously they do. You get what you can afford, having an expectation is meaningless. If there's some sort of building code that says fridges have to be massive, then yeah, that's bloody stupid, but that's not specifically a kitchen issue, that's just anti-poor law.

DoreenMichele 4y ago

When I lived in Germany, rentals did not come with installed kitchens. As an American military wife, the US Army installed a fridge, sink, etc so I had a kitchen in one of my apartments. My German relatives told stories about moving in and having no kitchen at first. That's inconceivable in most parts of the US. Rentals here typically have a fridge that is property of the owner. And you aren't supposed to change it. Edit: To be clear, they installed a kitchen of their choosing over time. (I also cleaned up typos.)

BlargMcLarg 4y ago
Many Europeans today would scoff at the idea of not having a kitchen, FWIW. Pluggable electric stoves have made it easier, but most still want a functionable sink with drinkable tap water outside the toilet / bathroom and a few counters to prepare food on.
- 2000UltraDeluxe 4y ago
  Yeah. I've seen some old apartments where the kitchen is basically a few shelves, a mini-refridgerator a small sink and a couple of hot plates. That's pretty much the bare minimum, though. Without a kitchen, I'd consider it a dorm room and not an apartment.