5 ms·

What's so great about Waterloo? It is nowhere near Standard/Caltech/MIT in competition. The quality of students is also just above mediocre given the smaller ta

by frontman1988 4y ago

What's so great about Waterloo? It is nowhere near Standard/Caltech/MIT in competition. The quality of students is also just above mediocre given the smaller talent pool of that exists in Canada.

TMWNN 4y ago
>What's so great about Waterloo? It is nowhere near Standard/Caltech/MIT in competition. Indeed. Canada and California have about the same population. One might plausibly, if generously, posit Toronto and McGill as rough equivalents to Berkeley and UCLA. But Canada does not have a Stanford, Caltech, CalArts, UCSF, USC, UCSD, etc., etc. Waterloo? SJSU, maybe, and California has a dozen other colleges at about that level.
- 2143 4y ago
  I wonder which one of these you went to?
  - TMWNN 4y ago
    As an Ivy Leaguer, I consider all of the above to be parvenu. But, certainly, Stanford/Berkeley/Caltech are worthwhile in a way that chuckle Canadian schools are not.
- 908B64B197 4y ago
  > One might plausibly, if generously, posit Toronto and McGill as rough equivalents to Berkeley and UCLA. Would someone really reject Berkley for one of these schools? Assuming tuition and securing a visa isn't an issue.
  - TMWNN 4y ago
    >> One might plausibly, if generously, posit Toronto and McGill as rough equivalents to Berkeley and UCLA. >Would someone really reject Berkley for one of these schools? Assuming tuition and securing a visa isn't an issue. True. I was thinking of the quality excluding other factors (and specifically noted that the comparison was still generous to Toronto/McGill). But I agree that anyone accepted to both Berkeley and Toronto/McGill is going to choose California over Canada, with the following exceptions: * Toronto/Montreal has some specific personal appeal * The Canadian schools' tuition works out to be substantially less than Berkeley. I know that McGill, in particular, has historically been a popular choice for eastern US students whose families make too much for financial aid from US schools, got turned down from their first choices (typically an Ivy), and choose McGill for both the relatively low cost even for out-of-country students and being able to say that they are going to another country for college (even if it's just across the Canadian border, quite possibly closer to home than an American alternative). But you did say to exclude cost and visas as a factor. Certainly, no foreign student accepted to both will ever choose Canada (except, say, a francophone who chooses McGill for that reason); Berkeley has a worldwide brand name that Toronto and McGill do not.
    - 908B64B197 4y ago
      > except, say, a francophone who chooses McGill for that reason The French schools actually have an interesting dynamic. Having worked with a few French Canadians here in the Bay they pretty much all told me they never considered going to an American school (or more generally working for an American company) due to their perceived language gap. It was later they figured out that if the whole room understands you then maybe you don’t have a language gap.
      - TMWNN 4y ago
        >The French schools actually have an interesting dynamic. Having worked with a few French Canadians here in the Bay they pretty much all told me they never considered going to an American school (or more generally working for an American company) due to their perceived language gap. Yes, I think Polytechnique Montréal is a popular choice for French looking to study STEM in North America. (Despite my mentioning McGill earlier, it wouldn't necessarily be the first choice for Francophones because it's an English university in the English part of Montreal.)
jensensbutton 4y ago
> It is nowhere near Standard/Caltech/MIT Based on my experience at multiple FAANGs and medium sized name brand tech companies... they'd much rather have a Waterloo grad than the above. Can't beat the education combined with the co-op experience.
- 908B64B197 4y ago
  > Based on my experience at multiple FAANGs and medium sized name brand tech companies... they'd much rather have a Waterloo grad than the above. It certainly wasn't what I observed. I guess for smaller firms that can't compete on salaries it make sense since they have no hope of being first pick at Stanford/Caltech/MIT.
esjeon 4y ago
Full disclosure: I'm from Waterloo. University of Waterloo is a relatively young university - established in 1959 - so it may look unattractive compared to old big name universities, especially on the usual metrics used for ranking universities. However, UWaterloo positioned itself into a very peculiar position by offering the most extensive undergraduate co-op program. Co-op students graduates with up to 2 years of field experience, and many of them get offers from the companies they worked for during co-op terms (and among them are Big Tech and other IT giants). This allows Waterloo graduates to get high-end jobs pretty quickly, and, as a result, it's currently one of the most popular universities in SV and Big Tech[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Waterloo#Rankings_and_reputation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Waterloo#Ranking... > The quality of students is also just above mediocre given the smaller talent pool of that exists in Canada. The pool is NOT limited to the population of Canada, because Canadian immigration policy create a lot of synergy here. Canada has a very lax immigration policy compared to US, so it's very easy for foreign students to settle in Canada after finishing their co-op. IIRC, both the federal gov and provincial gov roll their own immigration programs, so there's practically no shortage of immigration options when you graduate from a Canadian university. Hell, some people even use their shiny new Canadian PR/citizenship to re-immigrate to US, while a lot of foreign students in US get kicked out after graduation. The door is much more wide open in Canada. So, Waterloo co-op program is a great opportunity for foreign students to get a decent SWE job in North America - one of the most well paying jobs in the world. This makes Waterloo attract talents from abroad.
- 908B64B197 4y ago
  > so it may look unattractive compared to old big name universities, especially on the usual metrics used for ranking universities. Mostly research output and quality. > it's currently one of the most popular universities in SV and Big Tech How much of that is due to the sheer size of the undergraduate class? There are more undergrads at Waterloo than at MIT, Stanford, CMU, Caltech, Harvard, Princeton and Yale... Combined!
  - esjeon 4y ago
    > How much of that is due to the sheer size of the undergraduate class? The quantity still needs to be backed by the quality. Companies don't roll the dice when hiring people. They filter and interview. The numbers certainly prove that Waterloo draws many talents who can survive that process.
raydev 4y ago
> It is nowhere near Standard/Caltech/MIT in competition Source?

What's so great about Waterloo? It is nowhere near Standard/Caltech/MIT in competition. The quality of students is also just above mediocre given the smaller talent pool of that exists in Canada.

TMWNN 4y ago

>What's so great about Waterloo? It is nowhere near Standard/Caltech/MIT in competition. Indeed. Canada and California have about the same population. One might plausibly, if generously, posit Toronto and McGill as rough equivalents to Berkeley and UCLA. But Canada does not have a Stanford, Caltech, CalArts, UCSF, USC, UCSD, etc., etc. Waterloo? SJSU, maybe, and California has a dozen other colleges at about that level.

2143 4y ago
I wonder which one of these you went to?
- TMWNN 4y ago
  As an Ivy Leaguer, I consider all of the above to be parvenu. But, certainly, Stanford/Berkeley/Caltech are worthwhile in a way that chuckle Canadian schools are not.
908B64B197 4y ago
> One might plausibly, if generously, posit Toronto and McGill as rough equivalents to Berkeley and UCLA. Would someone really reject Berkley for one of these schools? Assuming tuition and securing a visa isn't an issue.
- TMWNN 4y ago
  >> One might plausibly, if generously, posit Toronto and McGill as rough equivalents to Berkeley and UCLA. >Would someone really reject Berkley for one of these schools? Assuming tuition and securing a visa isn't an issue. True. I was thinking of the quality excluding other factors (and specifically noted that the comparison was still generous to Toronto/McGill). But I agree that anyone accepted to both Berkeley and Toronto/McGill is going to choose California over Canada, with the following exceptions: * Toronto/Montreal has some specific personal appeal * The Canadian schools' tuition works out to be substantially less than Berkeley. I know that McGill, in particular, has historically been a popular choice for eastern US students whose families make too much for financial aid from US schools, got turned down from their first choices (typically an Ivy), and choose McGill for both the relatively low cost even for out-of-country students and being able to say that they are going to another country for college (even if it's just across the Canadian border, quite possibly closer to home than an American alternative). But you did say to exclude cost and visas as a factor. Certainly, no foreign student accepted to both will ever choose Canada (except, say, a francophone who chooses McGill for that reason); Berkeley has a worldwide brand name that Toronto and McGill do not.
  - 908B64B197 4y ago
    > except, say, a francophone who chooses McGill for that reason The French schools actually have an interesting dynamic. Having worked with a few French Canadians here in the Bay they pretty much all told me they never considered going to an American school (or more generally working for an American company) due to their perceived language gap. It was later they figured out that if the whole room understands you then maybe you don’t have a language gap.
    - TMWNN 4y ago
      >The French schools actually have an interesting dynamic. Having worked with a few French Canadians here in the Bay they pretty much all told me they never considered going to an American school (or more generally working for an American company) due to their perceived language gap. Yes, I think Polytechnique Montréal is a popular choice for French looking to study STEM in North America. (Despite my mentioning McGill earlier, it wouldn't necessarily be the first choice for Francophones because it's an English university in the English part of Montreal.)

jensensbutton 4y ago

> It is nowhere near Standard/Caltech/MIT Based on my experience at multiple FAANGs and medium sized name brand tech companies... they'd much rather have a Waterloo grad than the above. Can't beat the education combined with the co-op experience.

908B64B197 4y ago
> Based on my experience at multiple FAANGs and medium sized name brand tech companies... they'd much rather have a Waterloo grad than the above. It certainly wasn't what I observed. I guess for smaller firms that can't compete on salaries it make sense since they have no hope of being first pick at Stanford/Caltech/MIT.

esjeon 4y ago

Full disclosure: I'm from Waterloo. University of Waterloo is a relatively young university - established in 1959 - so it may look unattractive compared to old big name universities, especially on the usual metrics used for ranking universities. However, UWaterloo positioned itself into a very peculiar position by offering the most extensive undergraduate co-op program. Co-op students graduates with up to 2 years of field experience, and many of them get offers from the companies they worked for during co-op terms (and among them are Big Tech and other IT giants). This allows Waterloo graduates to get high-end jobs pretty quickly, and, as a result, it's currently one of the most popular universities in SV and Big Tech[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Waterloo#Rankings_and_reputation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Waterloo#Ranking... > The quality of students is also just above mediocre given the smaller talent pool of that exists in Canada. The pool is NOT limited to the population of Canada, because Canadian immigration policy create a lot of synergy here. Canada has a very lax immigration policy compared to US, so it's very easy for foreign students to settle in Canada after finishing their co-op. IIRC, both the federal gov and provincial gov roll their own immigration programs, so there's practically no shortage of immigration options when you graduate from a Canadian university. Hell, some people even use their shiny new Canadian PR/citizenship to re-immigrate to US, while a lot of foreign students in US get kicked out after graduation. The door is much more wide open in Canada. So, Waterloo co-op program is a great opportunity for foreign students to get a decent SWE job in North America - one of the most well paying jobs in the world. This makes Waterloo attract talents from abroad.

908B64B197 4y ago
> so it may look unattractive compared to old big name universities, especially on the usual metrics used for ranking universities. Mostly research output and quality. > it's currently one of the most popular universities in SV and Big Tech How much of that is due to the sheer size of the undergraduate class? There are more undergrads at Waterloo than at MIT, Stanford, CMU, Caltech, Harvard, Princeton and Yale... Combined!
- esjeon 4y ago
  > How much of that is due to the sheer size of the undergraduate class? The quantity still needs to be backed by the quality. Companies don't roll the dice when hiring people. They filter and interview. The numbers certainly prove that Waterloo draws many talents who can survive that process.

raydev 4y ago

> It is nowhere near Standard/Caltech/MIT in competition Source?