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Amazing, just two days ago I was searching for a polar arrangement tool in Inkscape. FOSS tools are often worse from a UI/UX perspective, sure, but I contend th

Amazing, just two days ago I was searching for a polar arrangement tool in Inkscape. FOSS tools are often worse from a UI/UX perspective, sure, but I contend that they usually provide something consumer commercial tools often don't: respect for users. I'm not necessarily talking about welcoming communities here - respect can take the form of, say, not engaging in hostilities like: - The sword of Damocles that is renting software. Can't pay? Can't access your data. Or worse, it's gone. - Developed-country-centric pricing models/heavy focus on newer hardware. - Locking you out of creative uses of the software - either our way or the highway - Effectively forced TOS or pricing changes - Unexplained bans/AI moderation/guilt by association/becoming subject to laws not relevant to your jurisdiction - Forced upgrades breaking workflows or removing features - Corporate bankruptcy/"amazing journey"/sales/pivots/mergers/etc ruining your investment - Misfeatures such as nag screens, dark patterns, engagement boosters (time wasters), unclear data collection... - Opaque bug submission channels, limited to no access to the engineers building the thing - Optimizing for revenue, not usefulness There is a feature count/learning curve price for this, I will readily admit. Sometimes, untenably so. My claim is simply that FOSS tools are important as a backstop/foundation. I feel that any problem solved exclusively by proprietary software is only solved temporarily and for a tiny percentage of the world population. If the company goes away or the IP otherwise becomes inactive, that's it. Especially with cloud software. With FOSS, the software never really goes away. The problem mostly stays solved, and anyone can resume the work if they are willing and able. I'd imagine a forked FOSS version of Win2k, VB6, or maybe the late-2000s Google indexer (bit of a stretch) would be quite successful today, for example. Guess I'll never be sure of that. Just musing after a beer and some Red Vines - I welcome any criticism or kindred spirits.

simonh 4y ago
All very good points and I don’t disagree with you. For me the issue is that FOSS is not a good model for generating the massive investment of resources needed to solve many problems. Inkscape is great and if your problem space happens to be adequately addressed by it then fine. It’s not anywhere close to addressing many of the use cases solved by proprietary DTP though and the pace of development is glacial. So I appreciate FOSS and use it, and I’m very grateful for it. I just don’t buy the moral arguments. If someone wants to charge money for their software, and I think it’s worth it, I’ll pay for it. I don’t see how that’s anyone else’s business.
- revertmean 4y ago
  It's not surprising that Inkscape isn't "close to addressing many of the use cases solved by proprietary DTP", mainly because it's not really DTP software. It's Vector Graphics software. If you're looking for FOSS DTP, try Scribus.
  - simonh 4y ago
    Doh, not the first time I've conflated those projects.
- bkor 4y ago
  > So I appreciate FOSS and use it, and I’m very grateful for it. I just don’t buy the moral arguments. If someone wants to charge money for their software FOSS isn't about it being free though. You've already stated the issue: > FOSS is not a good model for generating the massive investment of resources That doesn't mean FOSS is has as a moral to not charge for software.
- einpoklum 4y ago
  > If someone wants to charge money for their software, and I think it’s worth it, I’ll pay for it 1. No, you won't. Unless you think almost no software is worth it, or you're a billionaire. And most people don't have the money to be any of the software they would find useful (e.g. an office suite, an operating system). 2. The issue isn't whether you would pay for it or not. The issue - well, the issue for me anyway - is whether it is legitimate for the state to police the population to the extent of preventing the sharing of information, including software. I would say 'no'.
  - simonh 4y ago
    >1. No, you won't. Unless you think almost no software is worth it, or you're a billionaire..... I think you'r interpreting what I said as buying all rights to the software outright or something. I'm not quite sure. I meant buy as in pay for the right to use it. >the issue for me anyway - is whether it is legitimate for the state to police the population to the extent of preventing the sharing of information, including software It's legitimate for the state to wield the powers delegated to it by the people. Our society (I mean the west generally but other societies too) have for a very long time decided that ownership rights can be legitimately exercised on some information in some circumstances, for periods of time. I think it's legitimate to extend those protections to software. I understand you disagree on that, but for me there's both a moral and an economic dimension to the question. Some forms of information should be shareable and in the open, where that is in the public interest, sure. Political speech for example. However where there's a creative or economic value, as with a novel or software, the fact is treating sharing it as a free speech right would be economically catastrophic. Investment in media production including software development, writing books, creating music, making movies and TV would utterly collapse. I know technically there are theoretically alternate funding models, and even a very few examples of successful projects, but the barriers to entry and risks of such models are in practice so severe that it would still be economically and culturally devastating. That's why you're not going to get public support for such a change.
ciphol 4y ago
I agree. I would add than in my opinion, Inkscape specifically has a remarkably easy learning curve and great documentation. So little learning allowed me to accomplish so much. Admittedly, I don't use polar arrangements.
underdeserver 4y ago
I'm just left wondering whether you ended up finding a polar arrangement tool in Inkscape or not. It did make me read your whole post without skimming, so kudos on that.

simonh 4y ago

All very good points and I don’t disagree with you. For me the issue is that FOSS is not a good model for generating the massive investment of resources needed to solve many problems. Inkscape is great and if your problem space happens to be adequately addressed by it then fine. It’s not anywhere close to addressing many of the use cases solved by proprietary DTP though and the pace of development is glacial. So I appreciate FOSS and use it, and I’m very grateful for it. I just don’t buy the moral arguments. If someone wants to charge money for their software, and I think it’s worth it, I’ll pay for it. I don’t see how that’s anyone else’s business.

revertmean 4y ago
It's not surprising that Inkscape isn't "close to addressing many of the use cases solved by proprietary DTP", mainly because it's not really DTP software. It's Vector Graphics software. If you're looking for FOSS DTP, try Scribus.
- simonh 4y ago
  Doh, not the first time I've conflated those projects.
bkor 4y ago
> So I appreciate FOSS and use it, and I’m very grateful for it. I just don’t buy the moral arguments. If someone wants to charge money for their software FOSS isn't about it being free though. You've already stated the issue: > FOSS is not a good model for generating the massive investment of resources That doesn't mean FOSS is has as a moral to not charge for software.
einpoklum 4y ago
> If someone wants to charge money for their software, and I think it’s worth it, I’ll pay for it 1. No, you won't. Unless you think almost no software is worth it, or you're a billionaire. And most people don't have the money to be any of the software they would find useful (e.g. an office suite, an operating system). 2. The issue isn't whether you would pay for it or not. The issue - well, the issue for me anyway - is whether it is legitimate for the state to police the population to the extent of preventing the sharing of information, including software. I would say 'no'.
- simonh 4y ago
  >1. No, you won't. Unless you think almost no software is worth it, or you're a billionaire..... I think you'r interpreting what I said as buying all rights to the software outright or something. I'm not quite sure. I meant buy as in pay for the right to use it. >the issue for me anyway - is whether it is legitimate for the state to police the population to the extent of preventing the sharing of information, including software It's legitimate for the state to wield the powers delegated to it by the people. Our society (I mean the west generally but other societies too) have for a very long time decided that ownership rights can be legitimately exercised on some information in some circumstances, for periods of time. I think it's legitimate to extend those protections to software. I understand you disagree on that, but for me there's both a moral and an economic dimension to the question. Some forms of information should be shareable and in the open, where that is in the public interest, sure. Political speech for example. However where there's a creative or economic value, as with a novel or software, the fact is treating sharing it as a free speech right would be economically catastrophic. Investment in media production including software development, writing books, creating music, making movies and TV would utterly collapse. I know technically there are theoretically alternate funding models, and even a very few examples of successful projects, but the barriers to entry and risks of such models are in practice so severe that it would still be economically and culturally devastating. That's why you're not going to get public support for such a change.

ciphol 4y ago

I agree. I would add than in my opinion, Inkscape specifically has a remarkably easy learning curve and great documentation. So little learning allowed me to accomplish so much. Admittedly, I don't use polar arrangements.

underdeserver 4y ago

I'm just left wondering whether you ended up finding a polar arrangement tool in Inkscape or not. It did make me read your whole post without skimming, so kudos on that.