7 ms·

Why does it see so hard for FOSS to design a good looking UI. I honestly struggle visually with distinguishing what all those symbols mean. I don't use inkscape

by foxes 4y ago

Why does it see so hard for FOSS to design a good looking UI. I honestly struggle visually with distinguishing what all those symbols mean. I don't use inkscape enough to memorise keyboard shortcuts. I'm sure an experienced user will come along and proclaim it just works, but as someone who wants to use it intermittently, it needs some serious refinement.

digisign 4y ago
Darn tootin'! I'd ask for my money back.
- foxes 4y ago
  You can be salty if you want but the majority of the word has moved on from archaic desktop apps.
  - dotnet00 4y ago
    Generally these 'archaic' desktop apps have much better UIs than all the flat mobile-focused UIs that are popular these days with their oodles of wasted screen space, messy menus and unnecessary extra clicks needed for basic operations.
    - foxes 4y ago
      You said it yourself, the web apps popular. Why do you think that is? What makes them popular? Figma, canva etc are all really popular. Google docs is popular. They are all easy to use. For basic tasks we really dont need a huge expanse of menus and options all laid out like an aircraft cockpit. I would argue for a normal person that is far worse than some empty screen, which maybe hides a bit, but puts the more common or important tools visually first. Maybe it could just be a toggle in a menu somewhere, "pro mode". These FOSS tools could learn what was good about modern design and try to iterate on the good take aways.
      - digisign 4y ago
        Inkscape is not for basic tasks, and shouldn't be dumbed-down imho. Yes, (you're about to say) software can always be improved. I'm guessing there are other programs free through expensive that meet your basic-tasks use case. Be mindful, these are volunteers.
    - Tao332 4y ago
      Not to mention, archaic desktop apps work offline
  - Tao332 4y ago
    > salty I don't think that means what you think it means.
    - smegsicle 4y ago
      trying to sassily point out that you shouldn't critique free software sounds salty to me imean i really like inkscape but it seems obvious to me that being able to organize a focused, coherent, and powerful interface is a rare and subtle skill, and most people with it would not also happen to find themselves successfully herding the cats required for effective implementation in an OSS project
      - digisign 4y ago
        Complaining a program doesn't fit your use case (with a modern coat of paint to boot) is not really constructive criticism. Notably without specific solutions. In fact comes across as entitled. Sure it can be improved, but dumbed-down and flat is not in the top 100 things I'd ask for.
    - foxes 4y ago
      A bit like the meta discussion, salty is current term in society unlike GIMP and Inkscape UI. I have a concrete questions: Why can’t a lot of FOSS projects try and distill what is good about modern UI or ideas instead of looking like a program from 10 years ago. What is the obstruction in the community getting people to work on this? Hostile power user attitudes? Simultaneously if free software advocates want it to be adopted why don’t they cater a bit to the good things about modern design? Saltily remarking “you get what you pay for”, is hostile. Fine I’ll use the modern web and tools, and they can lament on HN wondering where everyone went.
      - digisign 4y ago
        The point was, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Someone is paying one way or the other. Comparing a few volunteers to trillion dollar organizations or VC projects is a little silly, is it not? Not to mention "modern design" is often worse in a number of ways. Inkscape is an incredible achievement with the amount of resources it has had available. If you can do better, do so. I'm willing to bet a comparable program is 1000x more work than you anticipate. This poster gets it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31406310 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31406310
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
doctormon 4y ago
Are the serious refinements in this new version, along the lines of the refinements you have in mind?
Tao332 4y ago
This makes me chuckle a little because Inkscape is the refinement! There used to be windows all over the place when it was still sodipodi. My understanding is that in this particular case, it's built in a very modular way. E.g. it uses an embedded version of potrace to do autotracing. It's hard to make a good and consistent UI when you're unifying so many pieces.
Eduard 4y ago
It just works. Maybe people are just different, but Inkscape's (G)UI has been serving me well enough ever since.

by foxes 4y ago

digisign 4y ago

Darn tootin'! I'd ask for my money back.

foxes 4y ago
You can be salty if you want but the majority of the word has moved on from archaic desktop apps.
- dotnet00 4y ago
  Generally these 'archaic' desktop apps have much better UIs than all the flat mobile-focused UIs that are popular these days with their oodles of wasted screen space, messy menus and unnecessary extra clicks needed for basic operations.
  - foxes 4y ago
    You said it yourself, the web apps popular. Why do you think that is? What makes them popular? Figma, canva etc are all really popular. Google docs is popular. They are all easy to use. For basic tasks we really dont need a huge expanse of menus and options all laid out like an aircraft cockpit. I would argue for a normal person that is far worse than some empty screen, which maybe hides a bit, but puts the more common or important tools visually first. Maybe it could just be a toggle in a menu somewhere, "pro mode". These FOSS tools could learn what was good about modern design and try to iterate on the good take aways.
    - digisign 4y ago
      Inkscape is not for basic tasks, and shouldn't be dumbed-down imho. Yes, (you're about to say) software can always be improved. I'm guessing there are other programs free through expensive that meet your basic-tasks use case. Be mindful, these are volunteers.
  - Tao332 4y ago
    Not to mention, archaic desktop apps work offline
- Tao332 4y ago
  > salty I don't think that means what you think it means.
  - smegsicle 4y ago
    trying to sassily point out that you shouldn't critique free software sounds salty to me imean i really like inkscape but it seems obvious to me that being able to organize a focused, coherent, and powerful interface is a rare and subtle skill, and most people with it would not also happen to find themselves successfully herding the cats required for effective implementation in an OSS project
    - digisign 4y ago
      Complaining a program doesn't fit your use case (with a modern coat of paint to boot) is not really constructive criticism. Notably without specific solutions. In fact comes across as entitled. Sure it can be improved, but dumbed-down and flat is not in the top 100 things I'd ask for.
  - foxes 4y ago
    A bit like the meta discussion, salty is current term in society unlike GIMP and Inkscape UI. I have a concrete questions: Why can’t a lot of FOSS projects try and distill what is good about modern UI or ideas instead of looking like a program from 10 years ago. What is the obstruction in the community getting people to work on this? Hostile power user attitudes? Simultaneously if free software advocates want it to be adopted why don’t they cater a bit to the good things about modern design? Saltily remarking “you get what you pay for”, is hostile. Fine I’ll use the modern web and tools, and they can lament on HN wondering where everyone went.
    - digisign 4y ago
      The point was, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Someone is paying one way or the other. Comparing a few volunteers to trillion dollar organizations or VC projects is a little silly, is it not? Not to mention "modern design" is often worse in a number of ways. Inkscape is an incredible achievement with the amount of resources it has had available. If you can do better, do so. I'm willing to bet a comparable program is 1000x more work than you anticipate. This poster gets it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31406310 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31406310
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

doctormon 4y ago

Are the serious refinements in this new version, along the lines of the refinements you have in mind?

Tao332 4y ago

This makes me chuckle a little because Inkscape is the refinement! There used to be windows all over the place when it was still sodipodi. My understanding is that in this particular case, it's built in a very modular way. E.g. it uses an embedded version of potrace to do autotracing. It's hard to make a good and consistent UI when you're unifying so many pieces.

Eduard 4y ago

It just works. Maybe people are just different, but Inkscape's (G)UI has been serving me well enough ever since.