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Good employees find ways to collaborate no matter what. That’s to say that real-time collaboration is a luxury feature. Also, many projects have only one design

Good employees find ways to collaborate no matter what. That’s to say that real-time collaboration is a luxury feature. Also, many projects have only one designer. Not to mention, it’s rare to find designers that work in tandem. Also, from a dev perspective having designs updates without some process is undesirable.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago
"That’s to say that real-time collaboration is a luxury feature." So were toilets once upon a time. I am not a fan of webapps, but this line of argument doesn't hold water
- efortis 4y ago
  I rather have a toilet than saving two clicks. —- real-time collab is not exclusive to webapps.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    >real-time collab is not exclusive to webapps. Sure, but once you make the effort required to build a real time app, there are vanishingly few reasons why not to have it as a web app. Some of them provide a desktop app as well but they all provide a web app. As a designer, you can just send a link to your design to anyone, end users, clients, developers, managers. And they just click it and it shows up and works. No need for installing software, setting up accounts, etc. A lot of these web apps are actually C++ and then compiled to web assembly so they are quite fast.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - esrauch 4y ago
    Do you use source control or do you email zips with the source files between you and the other developers? The collaboration here is exactly the same as that distinction in workflows. It's obviously not just "two clicks", it's "Text copy 2 final final alt reviewed.doc" and then you get a new person email their suggested updates to you as "Text copy 2 final 2.doc" and you have to somehow merge those suggestions in with the head version. With Word at least there's the ability to do suggestions rather than direct edits to let you collaborate against nonsynced docs at all, but with Inkscape when that happens you'll literally just get a different svg and you can't actually merge at all, instead you'd need to conceptually understand what edits were made and then make them again manually to the "head" version, which is completely redundant work.
    - efortis 4y ago
      > you'd need to conceptually understand what edits were made Same effort as reviewing the file history > and then make them again manually to the "head" version Copy + Paste
      - esrauch 4y ago
        This post is about Inkscape and Inkscape svgs dont have any edit history baked into them. If you had a dozen revisions and one of several collaborators sends you a suggestion version which they edited from some unknown revision what would you do with that? The file itself doesn't imply what deltas they made, and "copy paste" doesn't make sense, since what would you even be copy+pasting?
        efortis 4y ago
        Do you honestly think there's no way?
        esrauch 4y ago
        Yes, I honestly think that if you have collaborators doing edits forming a DAG of derived artifacts, and you only observe a subset of those artifacts that you can't take some arbitrary artifact and merge that correctly with another arbitrary that opaquely branched some point in the past. And that is what consistently happens with the "just email some zips of the documents" collaboration flows. Git helps by forcing the deltas to be knowable, but at the expense of a complex management tool and only really working on text based source. All other modern software now solves this problem by being online collaborative which eliminates the problem entirely, and that benefit dwarfs any other feature for most corporate/organizational usecases. Inkscape is great software, but it's not acceptable software if you're going to collaborate with multiple other people who will all be making edits to the same document.
        efortis 4y ago
        If you wonder how people collaborated (and still collaborate) without this tech let me know.
ageyfman 4y ago
As a different point of view, I work w/ my designer in Figma, and the collab features are a must-have. Our iterations are much faster in Figma than they would be on static files shipped via PDF, or whatever it would be.
- efortis 4y ago
  I've worked with designers in tandem as well, sharing screen, sitting next to each other, and in online real-time. Real-time collaboration is a way to collaborate, not the only way.
  - ageyfman 4y ago
    these folks are in Western Europe, and I'm on PST. So it's all async.
BeetleB 4y ago
> Good employees find ways to collaborate no matter what. The majority are not good employees. Good employees can collaborate well with LaTeX as well. Yet over 99% of workplaces will not use LaTeX.
- funstuff007 4y ago
  Of course, if an employee is crummy, you'd want to silo their work product so it did not infect the rest of the org.
  - BeetleB 4y ago
    The point is that few workplaces have a majority of employees that are "good enough" to find ways to collaborate with Inkscape. If even a third of them cannot find a way to do so, you're stuck, and siloing your/their work is not an option. No decent manager would accept that merely because you insist on using Inkscape.
- efortis 4y ago
  Knowing LaTeX doesn't make you a good employee.
  - BeetleB 4y ago
    Knowing how to collaborate well with LaTeX makes you about as "good" an employee as knowing how to collaborate well with Inkscape. The point is that even in places where about half the employees know how to collaborate with these tools, it is not done because you need the other employees to function.
    - efortis 4y ago
      I meant good as in good faith, but I see your point. I started using Corel Draw ~97, and after trying many design programs of all them seem about the same complexity-wise. Now, many people tried Gimp (which is far from Photoshop) and they wrongly think that Inkscape is another Gimp.
fivelessminutes 4y ago
On my deathbed, I doubt I will be regretting not bending my life out of shape more so someone would call me a 'good employee'.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

"That’s to say that real-time collaboration is a luxury feature." So were toilets once upon a time. I am not a fan of webapps, but this line of argument doesn't hold water

efortis 4y ago
I rather have a toilet than saving two clicks. —- real-time collab is not exclusive to webapps.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  >real-time collab is not exclusive to webapps. Sure, but once you make the effort required to build a real time app, there are vanishingly few reasons why not to have it as a web app. Some of them provide a desktop app as well but they all provide a web app. As a designer, you can just send a link to your design to anyone, end users, clients, developers, managers. And they just click it and it shows up and works. No need for installing software, setting up accounts, etc. A lot of these web apps are actually C++ and then compiled to web assembly so they are quite fast.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- esrauch 4y ago
  Do you use source control or do you email zips with the source files between you and the other developers? The collaboration here is exactly the same as that distinction in workflows. It's obviously not just "two clicks", it's "Text copy 2 final final alt reviewed.doc" and then you get a new person email their suggested updates to you as "Text copy 2 final 2.doc" and you have to somehow merge those suggestions in with the head version. With Word at least there's the ability to do suggestions rather than direct edits to let you collaborate against nonsynced docs at all, but with Inkscape when that happens you'll literally just get a different svg and you can't actually merge at all, instead you'd need to conceptually understand what edits were made and then make them again manually to the "head" version, which is completely redundant work.
  - efortis 4y ago
    > you'd need to conceptually understand what edits were made Same effort as reviewing the file history > and then make them again manually to the "head" version Copy + Paste
    - esrauch 4y ago
      This post is about Inkscape and Inkscape svgs dont have any edit history baked into them. If you had a dozen revisions and one of several collaborators sends you a suggestion version which they edited from some unknown revision what would you do with that? The file itself doesn't imply what deltas they made, and "copy paste" doesn't make sense, since what would you even be copy+pasting?
      - efortis 4y ago
        Do you honestly think there's no way?
        esrauch 4y ago
        Yes, I honestly think that if you have collaborators doing edits forming a DAG of derived artifacts, and you only observe a subset of those artifacts that you can't take some arbitrary artifact and merge that correctly with another arbitrary that opaquely branched some point in the past. And that is what consistently happens with the "just email some zips of the documents" collaboration flows. Git helps by forcing the deltas to be knowable, but at the expense of a complex management tool and only really working on text based source. All other modern software now solves this problem by being online collaborative which eliminates the problem entirely, and that benefit dwarfs any other feature for most corporate/organizational usecases. Inkscape is great software, but it's not acceptable software if you're going to collaborate with multiple other people who will all be making edits to the same document.
        efortis 4y ago
        If you wonder how people collaborated (and still collaborate) without this tech let me know.

ageyfman 4y ago

As a different point of view, I work w/ my designer in Figma, and the collab features are a must-have. Our iterations are much faster in Figma than they would be on static files shipped via PDF, or whatever it would be.

efortis 4y ago
I've worked with designers in tandem as well, sharing screen, sitting next to each other, and in online real-time. Real-time collaboration is a way to collaborate, not the only way.
- ageyfman 4y ago
  these folks are in Western Europe, and I'm on PST. So it's all async.

BeetleB 4y ago

> Good employees find ways to collaborate no matter what. The majority are not good employees. Good employees can collaborate well with LaTeX as well. Yet over 99% of workplaces will not use LaTeX.

funstuff007 4y ago
Of course, if an employee is crummy, you'd want to silo their work product so it did not infect the rest of the org.
- BeetleB 4y ago
  The point is that few workplaces have a majority of employees that are "good enough" to find ways to collaborate with Inkscape. If even a third of them cannot find a way to do so, you're stuck, and siloing your/their work is not an option. No decent manager would accept that merely because you insist on using Inkscape.
efortis 4y ago
Knowing LaTeX doesn't make you a good employee.
- BeetleB 4y ago
  Knowing how to collaborate well with LaTeX makes you about as "good" an employee as knowing how to collaborate well with Inkscape. The point is that even in places where about half the employees know how to collaborate with these tools, it is not done because you need the other employees to function.
  - efortis 4y ago
    I meant good as in good faith, but I see your point. I started using Corel Draw ~97, and after trying many design programs of all them seem about the same complexity-wise. Now, many people tried Gimp (which is far from Photoshop) and they wrongly think that Inkscape is another Gimp.

fivelessminutes 4y ago

On my deathbed, I doubt I will be regretting not bending my life out of shape more so someone would call me a 'good employee'.