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I am sincerely having difficulty parsing your argument. I think you are saying: 1. Despite the news articles, tech workers by and large are underpaid. 2. Som

I am sincerely having difficulty parsing your argument. I think you are saying: 1. Despite the news articles, tech workers by and large are underpaid. 2. Some exceptions to 1 exist that are sufficiently large and outsized that they are carrying the average. After discounting those individuals, tech wages are below what they should be. 3. Free trade and H1B visas are allowing large numbers of non-US tech talent into the hiring supply; this is driving down wages at the expense of the American tech worker. 4. Regardless of the fact that the supply of these workers is driving down wages as econ 1 would dictate, actual market wages should be much higher, because... (this is where I’m losing you)?

formerkrogemp 4y ago
I'm not the person you were discussing this with. I posted the first post about this up thread I think. I think you did a good job of summarizing the sentiment, yes. On 3, I think immigration is good, but it can also depress wages. I agree with 1 and 2 generally. On 4, I think that the revenue per employee in the tech industry vs salary is absolutely ridiculous and that tech workers need a union or higher wages across the industry. I would like to see a higher share of profits going to labor more generally rather than capital. I'm not against profit, but I think that the American worker has been cheated out wages correlating with rising productivity. Now I'm not saying that corporations are holding workers at gunpoint with a ski mask. You should dismiss that mental image. However, Mr. Wilson, I hope that you consider, with all of the retirements and demographics favoring workers now, that this could be a seminal moment for workers to organize and achieve fair wages for perhaps the first time in 40 years. However, outsourcing, scope creep, up-skilling, and automation are all factors, broadly, that could depress wage or job growth or neuter labor organization and rights. Stagnation and inflation could take bites out of the metaphorical apple as well. I'm not denying (most?) tech workers are paid highly relative to other industries. I think for the revenue that they generate or that they protect that they ought to be paid more. However, I think the stress/pay disparity with other industries has and will attract a lot of talent to IT and programming that could depress wages. Nurses, waiters, grocery workers, retail workers, and so forth aren't being paid enough to work in many places or commensurate with the working conditions or education or abuse from customers. There's too much to say and not enough space/time. I hope that summarizes my take on the issue for you, Mr. Wilson.
- mattcwilson 4y ago
  I appreciate you taking time to reply to the thread. I’m still struggling to understand the logic whereby tech workers, being overpaid relative to those other industries (so much so that there’s a brisk business and a lot of interest in bootcamps and tech training), are unfairly affected by this system and should unionize. I think it’s amazing that we’re increasing the talent pool, diversity, and technical literacy of the American workforce. I think it’s remarkable that the barriers to entry into the space are so low, and the potential for improvement so high. I think the opportunity boundary for technological innovation is broad, and the barriers to entry similarly low, that the best possible answer to the current situation to drive even more money to even more people is to keep innovating, keep creating tech businesses, and keep pulling in and expanding that talent pool. Which, perhaps, will in turn start applying sufficient scarcity effects on nursing, service workers, and so forth that wages inevitably increase there and/or the threshold gets met for tech innovation in those spaces to even further lift the bar for what we can all benefit from in those aspects of our lives. Saying tech workers are underpaid when there are so many people making bananas levels of income relative to those other economic sectors is tonedeaf af, imo. What am I missing? Again - thank you for taking the time to reply.

formerkrogemp 4y ago

I'm not the person you were discussing this with. I posted the first post about this up thread I think. I think you did a good job of summarizing the sentiment, yes. On 3, I think immigration is good, but it can also depress wages. I agree with 1 and 2 generally. On 4, I think that the revenue per employee in the tech industry vs salary is absolutely ridiculous and that tech workers need a union or higher wages across the industry. I would like to see a higher share of profits going to labor more generally rather than capital. I'm not against profit, but I think that the American worker has been cheated out wages correlating with rising productivity. Now I'm not saying that corporations are holding workers at gunpoint with a ski mask. You should dismiss that mental image. However, Mr. Wilson, I hope that you consider, with all of the retirements and demographics favoring workers now, that this could be a seminal moment for workers to organize and achieve fair wages for perhaps the first time in 40 years. However, outsourcing, scope creep, up-skilling, and automation are all factors, broadly, that could depress wage or job growth or neuter labor organization and rights. Stagnation and inflation could take bites out of the metaphorical apple as well. I'm not denying (most?) tech workers are paid highly relative to other industries. I think for the revenue that they generate or that they protect that they ought to be paid more. However, I think the stress/pay disparity with other industries has and will attract a lot of talent to IT and programming that could depress wages. Nurses, waiters, grocery workers, retail workers, and so forth aren't being paid enough to work in many places or commensurate with the working conditions or education or abuse from customers. There's too much to say and not enough space/time. I hope that summarizes my take on the issue for you, Mr. Wilson.

mattcwilson 4y ago
I appreciate you taking time to reply to the thread. I’m still struggling to understand the logic whereby tech workers, being overpaid relative to those other industries (so much so that there’s a brisk business and a lot of interest in bootcamps and tech training), are unfairly affected by this system and should unionize. I think it’s amazing that we’re increasing the talent pool, diversity, and technical literacy of the American workforce. I think it’s remarkable that the barriers to entry into the space are so low, and the potential for improvement so high. I think the opportunity boundary for technological innovation is broad, and the barriers to entry similarly low, that the best possible answer to the current situation to drive even more money to even more people is to keep innovating, keep creating tech businesses, and keep pulling in and expanding that talent pool. Which, perhaps, will in turn start applying sufficient scarcity effects on nursing, service workers, and so forth that wages inevitably increase there and/or the threshold gets met for tech innovation in those spaces to even further lift the bar for what we can all benefit from in those aspects of our lives. Saying tech workers are underpaid when there are so many people making bananas levels of income relative to those other economic sectors is tonedeaf af, imo. What am I missing? Again - thank you for taking the time to reply.