3 ms·

I didn't see any signs on OWS calling for "bigger, more powerful government". Changing a tax level on bankers doesn't change the size of government - spending

by jbooth 15y ago

I didn't see any signs on OWS calling for "bigger, more powerful government". Changing a tax level on bankers doesn't change the size of government - spending does that. And OWS wants to cut from a bigger slice (defense) than the tea party seems to (domestic discretionary).

sp332 15y ago
A lot (not all, maybe not most, but some of the louder ones) of the OWS people are calling for regulation of student debt, universal minimum income, and/or universal healthcare.
- jbooth 15y ago
  Given the existing government entanglement into student debt and healthcare, I don't think calls for reform are necessarily "bigger government". And I haven't seen much call for universal minimum income, raising the already-existent minimum wage, maybe. Point is, this isn't about something so stupidly 1-dimensional as "the size of gov't". That's just something to tell the rubes.
jerf 15y ago
A government that taxes more, forgives more debt at its whim, attacks bankers in new ways, etc, is a government exercising more power than it was before. If the protesters are not calling for government to intervene more muscularly than it is now, who exactly are they demonstrating to? If you want to claim that the government is already hip deep into everything and already has a great deal of power, and consequently bears a very large degree of responsibility for the problems we're in today, well, you're singing my song, but you might want to run that claim past the OWS protesters. I don't think you're going to find too many who would accept that defense. I grant you they're an amorphous lot, but claiming they're largely libertarians wouldn't pass the smell test. (I know 'em when I see 'em...)
- jbooth 15y ago
  I'm not claiming they're largely libertarians. I'm saying all of the libertarians-since-2009 are either plutocrats in disguise or being taken for a ride. Where are they on military spending? How about the Republicans blocking Obama's proposal to cut the payroll tax? How about immigration policy and drug policy? The only time I hear "small government" extolled as a virtue is in defense of policies that screw the little guy. The OWS people are, once again, not campaigning for "more/less government intervention". They're campaigning against most government actions being driven by lobbyists and campaign donations.

by jbooth 15y ago

sp332 15y ago

A lot (not all, maybe not most, but some of the louder ones) of the OWS people are calling for regulation of student debt, universal minimum income, and/or universal healthcare.

jbooth 15y ago
Given the existing government entanglement into student debt and healthcare, I don't think calls for reform are necessarily "bigger government". And I haven't seen much call for universal minimum income, raising the already-existent minimum wage, maybe. Point is, this isn't about something so stupidly 1-dimensional as "the size of gov't". That's just something to tell the rubes.

jerf 15y ago

A government that taxes more, forgives more debt at its whim, attacks bankers in new ways, etc, is a government exercising more power than it was before. If the protesters are not calling for government to intervene more muscularly than it is now, who exactly are they demonstrating to? If you want to claim that the government is already hip deep into everything and already has a great deal of power, and consequently bears a very large degree of responsibility for the problems we're in today, well, you're singing my song, but you might want to run that claim past the OWS protesters. I don't think you're going to find too many who would accept that defense. I grant you they're an amorphous lot, but claiming they're largely libertarians wouldn't pass the smell test. (I know 'em when I see 'em...)

jbooth 15y ago
I'm not claiming they're largely libertarians. I'm saying all of the libertarians-since-2009 are either plutocrats in disguise or being taken for a ride. Where are they on military spending? How about the Republicans blocking Obama's proposal to cut the payroll tax? How about immigration policy and drug policy? The only time I hear "small government" extolled as a virtue is in defense of policies that screw the little guy. The OWS people are, once again, not campaigning for "more/less government intervention". They're campaigning against most government actions being driven by lobbyists and campaign donations.