4 ms·

That's neat looking, but it really strikes me as a kind of cosplay than anything that would actually be useful in any kind of disaster situation: 1. If you're

That's neat looking, but it really strikes me as a kind of cosplay than anything that would actually be useful in any kind of disaster situation: 1. If you're off the grid, where are you going to get power to run this? 2. If there's no power grid or internet, you probably have much bigger problems than "how can I browse an offline copy of Wikipedia." Those problems would probably last longer than you want to schlep around and item like this. 3. I'm not under the impression that Raspberry Pi's are especially durable, though the SD-card storage is probably the weakest link (though both those things probably have benefits of being common things that allow for the scavenging of replacement parts). 4. If you need to protect from an EMP, I don't think "tinfoil lined cardboard box" will be sufficient. I was reading up on that a couple of months ago when the war started, and it sounds like little gaps in the shielding can seriously compromise the effectiveness of the sheilding. 5. Mil-spec connectors look cool, but if you need to use something like this, you'll probably want connectors that are a common as possible. A connector is useless if you don't have anything to plug into it. Some kind of terminal block would probably make more sense. Using a male connector seems like a particularly fatal flaw (if you used female, you'd at least be able to stick wires in the holes in a pinch). If you want to usefully prepare for any doomsday scenario, you probably need to really carefully think about your actual requirements in that scenario, and then build to those requirements. IMHO, if it's an actual doomsday, it's probably safe to assume technological society will collapse and not recover for generations, and any high technology would in reality be a short-to-medium term consumable that will break without replacement.

Ansil849 4y ago
> 1. If you're off the grid, where are you going to get power to run this? There are many sources of off-grid power. Solar, wind, hydro being the big three. > 2. If there's no power grid or internet, you probably have much bigger problems than "how can I browse an offline copy of Wikipedia." Those problems would probably last longer than you want to schlep around and item like this. s/Wikipedia/GIS
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > There are many sources of off-grid power. Solar, wind, hydro being the big three. Agreed, but that's the kind of thing that should be one of the first things you think about in these scenarios with powered electronics, and it wasn't treated here at all. >> 2. If there's no power grid or internet, you probably have much bigger problems than "how can I browse an offline copy of Wikipedia." Those problems would probably last longer than you want to schlep around and item like this. > s/Wikipedia/GIS So let's say you have a reasonable doomsday requirement for maps. Why this thing, and not some paper maps? Or a kindle loaded with a bunch of street atlases? I feel like you're looking at this from wrong perspective. It's not "how can this <thing> meet a requirement, but "what (combination of) things can best meet my requirements." The former will weigh you down with lot of albatrosses, the later may give you a usable toolkit.
  - unethical_ban 4y ago
    >Agreed, but that's the kind of thing that should be one of the first things you think about in these scenarios with powered electronics, and it wasn't treated here at all. If you wish to bake an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. Of course, any discussion involving off grid power would involve a symposium on the chemistry of photovoltaic cells, an introduction to EM physics and silicon manufacturing. Or just assume someone will figure out they need a solar pack from REI.
    - dylan604 4y ago
      > from REI. Sure, if you want to pay 3x higher for it than else where. I love REI, but my wallet hates it when I visit.
      - unethical_ban 4y ago
        Yeah, if there are equivalents for cheaper elsewhere, I understand. But I trust the brands that are sold there, and the return policy, so the premium is worth it for someone who can (a) afford it and (b) will use the product.
Terry_Roll 4y ago
> 3. I'm not under the impression that Raspberry Pi's are especially durable https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31404012 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31404012
donthellbanme 4y ago
1. Solar. 2. 3. Raspberry Pi's are cheap. You could buy a few. 4. You could wrap the Pelican case in multiple layers of tin foil, or sheet metal. 5. Connectors can be stripped, and wires twisted together.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  You're looking at if from the perspective of "how can I make this thing work?", which is backwards. In a doomsday scenario, I think it's almost certain you will not need a general purpose computer, and such a thing will be an albatross. You will need be mobile to find food and safe shelter. You will not need to hack the Vault-Tec mainframe to download a map to lightly-guarded supply depots. You will not have the luxury of trying to construct a power generator for a new settlement.
  - hunterb123 4y ago
    I think you're trying to assign the first scenario you thought of and project that as other's viewpoint when it isn't. The main use-case I can think of for this would be as a low-power PC at a basecamp connected to a solar source. During extreme weather or events you would close it, it could be transported safely via raft / boat / etc. I find the descriptor "off-grid" apt to indicate this. Under your scenario of being mobile in some sort of doomsday scavenging scenario, a mobile phone would be appropriate. This isn't suited for that, but I don't think anyone suggested it to be.
  - Karrot_Kream 4y ago
    I've seen lots of really silly projects about resilient computing that miss the forest for the trees (and feel a bit like LARPing) but this is actually a fairly sensible project that makes good tradeoffs (though the comments in this post about connectors and SD cards are good.) Remember, the title here is "Off-Grid" not "Post cataclysmic disaster". There's lots of quotidian off-grid experiences people experience all the time. Sometimes you end up in "nature" where there is power but it's a bit hard to come by and you're a day or two out from civilization. Sometimes you're traveling and you just don't have a power outlet with steady power near you or you just have enough access on a plane/train/etc to power your smartphone and nothing else. My partner's parents' power was knocked out during a hurricaine a couple years ago and they were without power for a few days. They had their smartphones but wanted to conserve power in case they needed maps or something. This solution actually works quite well for that situation.
imglorp 4y ago
> "how can I browse an offline copy of Wikipedia." I would like a source (1) low power, E-ink book readers with (2) an SD card slot that can handle large cards, and ideally (3) open to hacking. This is a very small set, possibly zero. All of the android readers are ruled out because it's power overkill just to get bits off a card to flip an e-ink screen and then go back to zero power for days or weeks. There used to be some readers with SD slots but those are often limited to 32 gig. And I want (3) in case the reader doesn't handle the formats I want. Such a machine /would/ be an offline, after civilization goes away machine. You'd want wikipedia, emergency medical handbook, plant identification books, etc etc.
- fallat 4y ago
  Wikipedia printed in the most compact form could be a really useful book. Obviously it can't have everything, but I wonder what such a book could look like.
  - alasdair_ 4y ago
    “ The Knowledge: How to Rebuild Civilization in the Aftermath of a Cataclysm” Is a fun read. It seriously considers these questions and talks about practical things, like how to salvage iron ore from scrap rather than having to resort to mining it initially.
  - regularfry 4y ago
    The problem is that Wikipedia's policy prohibits howto information. You can get a chunk of theory out of it, but not practical instructions. I don't know the reasoning behind it, but it makes Wikipedia significantly less useful for this particular use case than it might otherwise be. WikiBooks might fill the gap in some areas, but it's just not got as wide coverage.
- ThrowawayR2 4y ago
  SD cards have short retention lifetimes (5-10 years under optimal conditions when new, even less with wear), and therefore are undesirable as a component of a "after civilization goes away machine".
beachy 4y ago
There are a lot of scenarios that involve power and perhaps internet outages but aren't the end of mankind. Volcanoes, earthquakes, war-related disruption, (worse) viruses. Power is something you can do yourself. We have a cabin with 5 x solar panels and a 3kw inverter for example. Others may just have a deep cycle battery connected to a trickle charger. It's quite likely that there may be power outages but you still have 3g/4g internet connectivity. 3 and 5 are good points. I thought terminal blocks as well.
pryelluw 4y ago
I went through a category 5 hurricane and this would not have been much different than my 2012 modem MacBook. Which performed excellently and kept me mostly sane.
sangnoir 4y ago
> how can I browse an offline copy of Wikipedia." Those problems would probably last longer than you want to schlep around and item like this. Which is why you download offline Wikipedia before the disaster. I know "preppers" have a bad rap for cos-playing, but this project strikes me as the tech equivalent of "Prepare an emergency go bag,and buy some tarp to seal your windows and doors in case of a shelter-in-place order[1]". Sure, buying your gear/rations from an Army Surplus store is cos-playey (as is the EMP shielding), but the principle is sound. > IMHO, if it's an actual doomsday, it's probably safe to assume technological society will collapse and not recover for generations, and any high technology would in reality be a short-to-medium term consumable that will break without replacement. I suspect you're overthinking it - this is a computing equivalent of a go bag, not a nuclear bunker. Having offline useful information will be useful from day 0 (maps, emergency frequencies, agricultural & disease info, for example). The RPi has no moving parts and can run for years: my 1st-gen pi is chugging along just fine. 1. Which is always a good idea; see https://ready.gov/kit https://ready.gov/kit
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > Which is why you download offline Wikipedia before the disaster. You misunderstand. I'm saying that browsing a downloaded copy of Wikipedia is a counterproductive waste of time in a disaster. Investing effort into making sure you'll be able to access Wikipedia at all times in even the most dire of circumstances is probably having your priorities out of whack. It's like a kid packing for a trip by filling their bag with toys. > I suspect you're overthinking it No, I'm questioning some of the fundamental assumptions that would cause one to construct a device like this for anything besides cyberpunk cosplay. > but this project strikes me as the tech equivalent of "Prepare an emergency go bag,and buy some tarp to seal your windows and doors in case of a shelter-in-place order[1] > this is a computing equivalent of a go bag It's like the exercise-equipment equivalent of a go bag, or the kitchen-gadget equivalent of a go bag (e.g. the kind of thing that shouldn't be in a go bag in the first place). I think the idea that this is for anything but cosplay is the result of tech people fallaciously believing their most familiar tools (i.e. general purpose computers) will always be useful, and therefore making elaborate plans to preserve their access in situations where their PC will be as obsolete as a buggy whips. > Having offline useful information will be useful from day 0 (maps, emergency frequencies, agricultural & disease info, for example). Even assuming that is so, I think a bulky mains-powered PC is not anything close to the right tool to provide any of that. It would be about 1000x better to have compact amount of judiciously-selected paper reference material, augmented with a kindle with an appropriate selection of eBooks if you must be less judicious.
dylan604 4y ago
>3. I'm not under the impression that Raspberry Pi's are especially durable, though the SD-card storage is probably the weakest link (though both those things probably have benefits of being common things that allow for the scavenging of replacement parts). With as much space is available in that case, you could have a stack of spare SD cards pre-imaged ready to go in case the one in the Pi gets corrupted
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
joshvm 4y ago
In the short term, I think a mobile phone with an offline copy would probably be fine. You can buy something with a large amount of storage (you need 100 gig or so for offline wiki with images), is fully waterproof, more portable and can be EMP shielded in a metal box easily. Charging is also easy with a small panel and a power bank. You can also store offline open street map (OSMand) and you have GPS built in, though in the apocalypse that would stop working eventually too. I think they would actually keep transmitting (it'd make sense from a military perspective) but eventually they'd lose station-keeping ability if they don't get orbital corrections from a ground station. The main problem you'll have is that mobile apps and OSs tend to do weird things if they're offline for an appreciable length of time. Lots of things randomly stop working because caches become invalidated. Anything that requires a login or an app that tries to update (and fails to connect) is liable to break eventually.

Ansil849 4y ago

> 1. If you're off the grid, where are you going to get power to run this? There are many sources of off-grid power. Solar, wind, hydro being the big three. > 2. If there's no power grid or internet, you probably have much bigger problems than "how can I browse an offline copy of Wikipedia." Those problems would probably last longer than you want to schlep around and item like this. s/Wikipedia/GIS

tablespoon 4y ago
> There are many sources of off-grid power. Solar, wind, hydro being the big three. Agreed, but that's the kind of thing that should be one of the first things you think about in these scenarios with powered electronics, and it wasn't treated here at all. >> 2. If there's no power grid or internet, you probably have much bigger problems than "how can I browse an offline copy of Wikipedia." Those problems would probably last longer than you want to schlep around and item like this. > s/Wikipedia/GIS So let's say you have a reasonable doomsday requirement for maps. Why this thing, and not some paper maps? Or a kindle loaded with a bunch of street atlases? I feel like you're looking at this from wrong perspective. It's not "how can this <thing> meet a requirement, but "what (combination of) things can best meet my requirements." The former will weigh you down with lot of albatrosses, the later may give you a usable toolkit.
- unethical_ban 4y ago
  >Agreed, but that's the kind of thing that should be one of the first things you think about in these scenarios with powered electronics, and it wasn't treated here at all. If you wish to bake an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. Of course, any discussion involving off grid power would involve a symposium on the chemistry of photovoltaic cells, an introduction to EM physics and silicon manufacturing. Or just assume someone will figure out they need a solar pack from REI.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    > from REI. Sure, if you want to pay 3x higher for it than else where. I love REI, but my wallet hates it when I visit.
    - unethical_ban 4y ago
      Yeah, if there are equivalents for cheaper elsewhere, I understand. But I trust the brands that are sold there, and the return policy, so the premium is worth it for someone who can (a) afford it and (b) will use the product.

Terry_Roll 4y ago

> 3. I'm not under the impression that Raspberry Pi's are especially durable https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31404012 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31404012

donthellbanme 4y ago

1. Solar. 2. 3. Raspberry Pi's are cheap. You could buy a few. 4. You could wrap the Pelican case in multiple layers of tin foil, or sheet metal. 5. Connectors can be stripped, and wires twisted together.

tablespoon 4y ago
You're looking at if from the perspective of "how can I make this thing work?", which is backwards. In a doomsday scenario, I think it's almost certain you will not need a general purpose computer, and such a thing will be an albatross. You will need be mobile to find food and safe shelter. You will not need to hack the Vault-Tec mainframe to download a map to lightly-guarded supply depots. You will not have the luxury of trying to construct a power generator for a new settlement.
- hunterb123 4y ago
  I think you're trying to assign the first scenario you thought of and project that as other's viewpoint when it isn't. The main use-case I can think of for this would be as a low-power PC at a basecamp connected to a solar source. During extreme weather or events you would close it, it could be transported safely via raft / boat / etc. I find the descriptor "off-grid" apt to indicate this. Under your scenario of being mobile in some sort of doomsday scavenging scenario, a mobile phone would be appropriate. This isn't suited for that, but I don't think anyone suggested it to be.
- Karrot_Kream 4y ago
  I've seen lots of really silly projects about resilient computing that miss the forest for the trees (and feel a bit like LARPing) but this is actually a fairly sensible project that makes good tradeoffs (though the comments in this post about connectors and SD cards are good.) Remember, the title here is "Off-Grid" not "Post cataclysmic disaster". There's lots of quotidian off-grid experiences people experience all the time. Sometimes you end up in "nature" where there is power but it's a bit hard to come by and you're a day or two out from civilization. Sometimes you're traveling and you just don't have a power outlet with steady power near you or you just have enough access on a plane/train/etc to power your smartphone and nothing else. My partner's parents' power was knocked out during a hurricaine a couple years ago and they were without power for a few days. They had their smartphones but wanted to conserve power in case they needed maps or something. This solution actually works quite well for that situation.

imglorp 4y ago

> "how can I browse an offline copy of Wikipedia." I would like a source (1) low power, E-ink book readers with (2) an SD card slot that can handle large cards, and ideally (3) open to hacking. This is a very small set, possibly zero. All of the android readers are ruled out because it's power overkill just to get bits off a card to flip an e-ink screen and then go back to zero power for days or weeks. There used to be some readers with SD slots but those are often limited to 32 gig. And I want (3) in case the reader doesn't handle the formats I want. Such a machine /would/ be an offline, after civilization goes away machine. You'd want wikipedia, emergency medical handbook, plant identification books, etc etc.

fallat 4y ago
Wikipedia printed in the most compact form could be a really useful book. Obviously it can't have everything, but I wonder what such a book could look like.
- alasdair_ 4y ago
  “ The Knowledge: How to Rebuild Civilization in the Aftermath of a Cataclysm” Is a fun read. It seriously considers these questions and talks about practical things, like how to salvage iron ore from scrap rather than having to resort to mining it initially.
- regularfry 4y ago
  The problem is that Wikipedia's policy prohibits howto information. You can get a chunk of theory out of it, but not practical instructions. I don't know the reasoning behind it, but it makes Wikipedia significantly less useful for this particular use case than it might otherwise be. WikiBooks might fill the gap in some areas, but it's just not got as wide coverage.
ThrowawayR2 4y ago
SD cards have short retention lifetimes (5-10 years under optimal conditions when new, even less with wear), and therefore are undesirable as a component of a "after civilization goes away machine".

beachy 4y ago

There are a lot of scenarios that involve power and perhaps internet outages but aren't the end of mankind. Volcanoes, earthquakes, war-related disruption, (worse) viruses. Power is something you can do yourself. We have a cabin with 5 x solar panels and a 3kw inverter for example. Others may just have a deep cycle battery connected to a trickle charger. It's quite likely that there may be power outages but you still have 3g/4g internet connectivity. 3 and 5 are good points. I thought terminal blocks as well.

pryelluw 4y ago

I went through a category 5 hurricane and this would not have been much different than my 2012 modem MacBook. Which performed excellently and kept me mostly sane.

sangnoir 4y ago

> how can I browse an offline copy of Wikipedia." Those problems would probably last longer than you want to schlep around and item like this. Which is why you download offline Wikipedia before the disaster. I know "preppers" have a bad rap for cos-playing, but this project strikes me as the tech equivalent of "Prepare an emergency go bag,and buy some tarp to seal your windows and doors in case of a shelter-in-place order[1]". Sure, buying your gear/rations from an Army Surplus store is cos-playey (as is the EMP shielding), but the principle is sound. > IMHO, if it's an actual doomsday, it's probably safe to assume technological society will collapse and not recover for generations, and any high technology would in reality be a short-to-medium term consumable that will break without replacement. I suspect you're overthinking it - this is a computing equivalent of a go bag, not a nuclear bunker. Having offline useful information will be useful from day 0 (maps, emergency frequencies, agricultural & disease info, for example). The RPi has no moving parts and can run for years: my 1st-gen pi is chugging along just fine. 1. Which is always a good idea; see https://ready.gov/kit https://ready.gov/kit

tablespoon 4y ago
> Which is why you download offline Wikipedia before the disaster. You misunderstand. I'm saying that browsing a downloaded copy of Wikipedia is a counterproductive waste of time in a disaster. Investing effort into making sure you'll be able to access Wikipedia at all times in even the most dire of circumstances is probably having your priorities out of whack. It's like a kid packing for a trip by filling their bag with toys. > I suspect you're overthinking it No, I'm questioning some of the fundamental assumptions that would cause one to construct a device like this for anything besides cyberpunk cosplay. > but this project strikes me as the tech equivalent of "Prepare an emergency go bag,and buy some tarp to seal your windows and doors in case of a shelter-in-place order[1] > this is a computing equivalent of a go bag It's like the exercise-equipment equivalent of a go bag, or the kitchen-gadget equivalent of a go bag (e.g. the kind of thing that shouldn't be in a go bag in the first place). I think the idea that this is for anything but cosplay is the result of tech people fallaciously believing their most familiar tools (i.e. general purpose computers) will always be useful, and therefore making elaborate plans to preserve their access in situations where their PC will be as obsolete as a buggy whips. > Having offline useful information will be useful from day 0 (maps, emergency frequencies, agricultural & disease info, for example). Even assuming that is so, I think a bulky mains-powered PC is not anything close to the right tool to provide any of that. It would be about 1000x better to have compact amount of judiciously-selected paper reference material, augmented with a kindle with an appropriate selection of eBooks if you must be less judicious.

dylan604 4y ago

>3. I'm not under the impression that Raspberry Pi's are especially durable, though the SD-card storage is probably the weakest link (though both those things probably have benefits of being common things that allow for the scavenging of replacement parts). With as much space is available in that case, you could have a stack of spare SD cards pre-imaged ready to go in case the one in the Pi gets corrupted

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

joshvm 4y ago

In the short term, I think a mobile phone with an offline copy would probably be fine. You can buy something with a large amount of storage (you need 100 gig or so for offline wiki with images), is fully waterproof, more portable and can be EMP shielded in a metal box easily. Charging is also easy with a small panel and a power bank. You can also store offline open street map (OSMand) and you have GPS built in, though in the apocalypse that would stop working eventually too. I think they would actually keep transmitting (it'd make sense from a military perspective) but eventually they'd lose station-keeping ability if they don't get orbital corrections from a ground station. The main problem you'll have is that mobile apps and OSs tend to do weird things if they're offline for an appreciable length of time. Lots of things randomly stop working because caches become invalidated. Anything that requires a login or an app that tries to update (and fails to connect) is liable to break eventually.