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I don't think the harm data means you need to go pay a yogi $400 for lessons. I think we need to stop telling people meditation is a perfect little peaceful pr

I don't think the harm data means you need to go pay a yogi $400 for lessons. I think we need to stop telling people meditation is a perfect little peaceful practice and instead treat it like ibuprofen. If you are meditating and you start feeling anxious or in a bad way.. stop. Stop meditating and go do something else. Maybe talk with a therapist. If you start feeling depersonalization.. stop meditating. You should inform your medical practicioners that you meditate, the same way you tell them if you take ibuprofen on the regular. They probably don't care, but it's good to know. You probably should ask yourself "is the benefit from meditation exceeding the side effects?" If no.. then stop doing it. Taking more ibuprofen is not always the right course. The goal of meditating should not be to meditate more.

taeric 4y ago
Amusingly, I am probably harsher on meditation than you seem to be. My stance is more that if you are otherwise healthy and making good choices, go for it. If you are wanting to use it as a treatment for problems/discontents in your life, expect that it won't help, and focusing on your problems is likely to lead to other problems. Comparing it to ibuprofen strikes me as begging the question that it has a mechanism. Something I am not quite ready to cede.
- bowsamic 4y ago
  I’m confused. Are you claiming that meditation might literally have no effect?
  - taeric 4y ago
    Not literally zero effect. But I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the effect is the same as how propaganda works. I take it as similar to inversion tables. Could it help some folks with their back pain? Absolutely. Does it do so for the reasons they put forward? Highly unlikely. (Acupuncture is similar. Homeopathy? Maybe...)
    - bowsamic 4y ago
      So you're claiming that it's mostly placebo? That is absurd to me. Why wouldn't sitting down and doing a specific mental activity for 30 minutes a day (e.g. paying attention to breath) change something? It seems very obvious to me that it would train the mind in some way. This is a genuinely bizarre take
      - taeric 4y ago
        No. Placebo is a different thing. Persuasion would be closer. And I welcome being wrong. But spirituality of all types rings very hollow to me.
        bowsamic 4y ago
        Meditation isn't really a spiritual act though, it's simply a form of mental training. It is like learning, or doing puzzles, etc. Do you doubt those things? The spiritual part is how to frame the results and shifts that come from long-term meditation in a helpful worldview. Have you tried it by the way? It sounds like you aren't quite aware what it even is
        taeric 4y ago
        For those that are neither spiritual nor meditative, they are both far away in thought. I have tried meditation before. Never did a weekend retreat, but used to do guided classes. They left me a bit high and dry. And they felt exactly the same as old religious acquaintances on how that helps guide and inform. I /do not/ doubt that it works for the folks it works for. I clearly have doubts that it is a general thing that even can work for everyone.
        bowsamic 4y ago
        Anyone who sits and keeps their mind on a single object for 30 mins a day will eventually experience _some_ kind of effect from it.

taeric 4y ago

Amusingly, I am probably harsher on meditation than you seem to be. My stance is more that if you are otherwise healthy and making good choices, go for it. If you are wanting to use it as a treatment for problems/discontents in your life, expect that it won't help, and focusing on your problems is likely to lead to other problems. Comparing it to ibuprofen strikes me as begging the question that it has a mechanism. Something I am not quite ready to cede.

bowsamic 4y ago
I’m confused. Are you claiming that meditation might literally have no effect?
- taeric 4y ago
  Not literally zero effect. But I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the effect is the same as how propaganda works. I take it as similar to inversion tables. Could it help some folks with their back pain? Absolutely. Does it do so for the reasons they put forward? Highly unlikely. (Acupuncture is similar. Homeopathy? Maybe...)
  - bowsamic 4y ago
    So you're claiming that it's mostly placebo? That is absurd to me. Why wouldn't sitting down and doing a specific mental activity for 30 minutes a day (e.g. paying attention to breath) change something? It seems very obvious to me that it would train the mind in some way. This is a genuinely bizarre take
    - taeric 4y ago
      No. Placebo is a different thing. Persuasion would be closer. And I welcome being wrong. But spirituality of all types rings very hollow to me.
      - bowsamic 4y ago
        Meditation isn't really a spiritual act though, it's simply a form of mental training. It is like learning, or doing puzzles, etc. Do you doubt those things? The spiritual part is how to frame the results and shifts that come from long-term meditation in a helpful worldview. Have you tried it by the way? It sounds like you aren't quite aware what it even is
        taeric 4y ago
        For those that are neither spiritual nor meditative, they are both far away in thought. I have tried meditation before. Never did a weekend retreat, but used to do guided classes. They left me a bit high and dry. And they felt exactly the same as old religious acquaintances on how that helps guide and inform. I /do not/ doubt that it works for the folks it works for. I clearly have doubts that it is a general thing that even can work for everyone.
        bowsamic 4y ago
        Anyone who sits and keeps their mind on a single object for 30 mins a day will eventually experience _some_ kind of effect from it.