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8% is indeed quite high. My gut would be more that this is the selection bias, though. Folks that are looking for things such as meditation to help with menta
by taeric 5y ago
8% is indeed quite high. My gut would be more that this is the selection bias, though. Folks that are looking for things such as meditation to help with mental health, are more likely to have trouble with mental health. Such that I am still suspicious of this data.
I should say that I'm fine with the idea of pushing for caution. I just have major suspicions when a practice is pushed with a mentality that you need expert guidance to get layman benefits.
I should also state that my personal stance is that the majority of meditation, if it is working, is not working for the reasons that the practitioners think it is working.
- vorpalhex 5y agoI don't think the harm data means you need to go pay a yogi $400 for lessons. I think we need to stop telling people meditation is a perfect little peaceful practice and instead treat it like ibuprofen. If you are meditating and you start feeling anxious or in a bad way.. stop. Stop meditating and go do something else. Maybe talk with a therapist. If you start feeling depersonalization.. stop meditating. You should inform your medical practicioners that you meditate, the same way you tell them if you take ibuprofen on the regular. They probably don't care, but it's good to know. You probably should ask yourself "is the benefit from meditation exceeding the side effects?" If no.. then stop doing it. Taking more ibuprofen is not always the right course. The goal of meditating should not be to meditate more.
- taeric 5y agoAmusingly, I am probably harsher on meditation than you seem to be. My stance is more that if you are otherwise healthy and making good choices, go for it. If you are wanting to use it as a treatment for problems/discontents in your life, expect that it won't help, and focusing on your problems is likely to lead to other problems. Comparing it to ibuprofen strikes me as begging the question that it has a mechanism. Something I am not quite ready to cede.
- bowsamic 5y agoI’m confused. Are you claiming that meditation might literally have no effect?
- taeric 5y agoNot literally zero effect. But I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the effect is the same as how propaganda works. I take it as similar to inversion tables. Could it help some folks with their back pain? Absolutely. Does it do so for the reasons they put forward? Highly unlikely. (Acupuncture is similar. Homeopathy? Maybe...)
- bowsamic 5y agoSo you're claiming that it's mostly placebo? That is absurd to me. Why wouldn't sitting down and doing a specific mental activity for 30 minutes a day (e.g. paying attention to breath) change something? It seems very obvious to me that it would train the mind in some way. This is a genuinely bizarre take
- taeric 5y agoNo. Placebo is a different thing. Persuasion would be closer. And I welcome being wrong. But spirituality of all types rings very hollow to me.
- bowsamic 5y agoMeditation isn't really a spiritual act though, it's simply a form of mental training. It is like learning, or doing puzzles, etc. Do you doubt those things? The spiritual part is how to frame the results and shifts that come from long-term meditation in a helpful worldview. Have you tried it by the way? It sounds like you aren't quite aware what it even is
- taeric 5y ago