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> Skype started out as a p2p thing. But ultimately, video calls became a commodity where orchestrating them centrally proved to be good enough. It's my underst

by anamax 4y ago

> Skype started out as a p2p thing. But ultimately, video calls became a commodity where orchestrating them centrally proved to be good enough. It's my understanding that "phone" without the ability to tap is illegal in the US. IIRC, the "must be able to let the govt listen" requirement occurred at the same time as Skpye switched models and the requirement was given as the reason for said switch.

salawat 4y ago
That applies only for Common Carriers. Skype is not Common Carrier. It's an Internet Service which ISP's have been deadset on avoiding getting classified as covered under Common Carrier obligations because it would entail, according to them, enormous harm to the profitability of the sector due to the cost of increased regulatory compliance". Telco's/Telephony must provide pen register/tap capability. Internet services as of yet need not. Until you become big enough for Federal LE to start harassing. The relevant regulation in question is CALEA.
xyzzyz 4y ago
It might be some sort of opaque incentive where gov goons tell you they’ll make life difficult for you if you don’t comply, but I certainly have not ever seen this being an open requirement. Signal still exists, for example.
- marricks 4y ago
  I mean, look what happened to Qwest. It’s totally believable.
jrochkind1 4y ago
As far as I know Signal voice calls are not illegal, and do not provide an ability to tap, and are p2p in network architecture. So I'm not sure that's accurate that there were any such legal limits on Skype, I'd like to see a citation to more info.
ohthehugemanate 4y ago
> It's my understanding that "phone" without the ability to tap is illegal in the US. This is not true. Else you couldn't have whatsapp or signal calls (e2e encrypted). In 2009, Skype made the argument with the ACLU that they are not a telecoms carrier, and are therefore exempt from CALEA and similar regulations. Additionally, Skype's original CSEO refused to promise that they did not support wiretaps in the original architecture. We know from Edward Snowden that "old Skype" was included in NSA data sources. Skype changed architecture because routing calls through neighboring, always-on nodes is not practical in a mobile world where 50%+ of users pay for their data by the MB, and have spotty connections with high latency. For several years before the rearchitecture, Microsoft propped up the network by running all the supernodes itself.

by anamax 4y ago

salawat 4y ago

That applies only for Common Carriers. Skype is not Common Carrier. It's an Internet Service which ISP's have been deadset on avoiding getting classified as covered under Common Carrier obligations because it would entail, according to them, enormous harm to the profitability of the sector due to the cost of increased regulatory compliance". Telco's/Telephony must provide pen register/tap capability. Internet services as of yet need not. Until you become big enough for Federal LE to start harassing. The relevant regulation in question is CALEA.

xyzzyz 4y ago

It might be some sort of opaque incentive where gov goons tell you they’ll make life difficult for you if you don’t comply, but I certainly have not ever seen this being an open requirement. Signal still exists, for example.

marricks 4y ago
I mean, look what happened to Qwest. It’s totally believable.

jrochkind1 4y ago

As far as I know Signal voice calls are not illegal, and do not provide an ability to tap, and are p2p in network architecture. So I'm not sure that's accurate that there were any such legal limits on Skype, I'd like to see a citation to more info.

ohthehugemanate 4y ago

> It's my understanding that "phone" without the ability to tap is illegal in the US. This is not true. Else you couldn't have whatsapp or signal calls (e2e encrypted). In 2009, Skype made the argument with the ACLU that they are not a telecoms carrier, and are therefore exempt from CALEA and similar regulations. Additionally, Skype's original CSEO refused to promise that they did not support wiretaps in the original architecture. We know from Edward Snowden that "old Skype" was included in NSA data sources. Skype changed architecture because routing calls through neighboring, always-on nodes is not practical in a mobile world where 50%+ of users pay for their data by the MB, and have spotty connections with high latency. For several years before the rearchitecture, Microsoft propped up the network by running all the supernodes itself.