4 ms·

Do you believe a Gallup poll should dictate a country's borders or serve as justification for a nation being invaded by its neighbor?

pydry 4y ago
No, but I believe referenda should. Ukraine gained its independence that way after all. The gallup polls simply confirmed that the referendum that was run by Russian troops was more or less free and fair. I believe this is a good litmus test of peoples belief in democracy as a matter of principle. Belief in democracy means commitment to voting especially when you dont like the result. It appears a lot of people do not like democracy.
- drakonka 4y ago
  A referendum is a far cry from your original suggestion to "officially cede Crimea", though. There can be no legitimate referendum while a territory is under invasion. Suggesting a sovereign nation cede territory to an oppressive dictator who decided to invade it is antithetical to democracy, as is suggesting that said tyrant should be allowed to dictate which defensive alliance it joins.
  - pydry 4y ago
    >A referendum is a far cry from your original suggestion to "officially cede Crimea", though The referendum already happened. My original suggestion was "respect the result" - what 90% or crimeans also want according to gallup - a western pollster. What you want is for their votes to be "corrected" to fall in line with strategic imperialist objectives. This is a position Putin would understand and respect. >There can be no legitimate referendum while a territory is under invasion. Actually I believe there can under three conditions: * The population want the referendum. * The referendum wouldnt have happened without invasion. * No vote coercion happened as a result of the invasion. All three conditions held for Crimea, as well as certain other places. These conditions held for Iraq also, for example. Once again: if you want to anull the results of a referendum because you dont like the result where there is no uncertainty about a free and fair result then you can only pretend to respect democracy.

pydry 4y ago

No, but I believe referenda should. Ukraine gained its independence that way after all. The gallup polls simply confirmed that the referendum that was run by Russian troops was more or less free and fair. I believe this is a good litmus test of peoples belief in democracy as a matter of principle. Belief in democracy means commitment to voting especially when you dont like the result. It appears a lot of people do not like democracy.

drakonka 4y ago
A referendum is a far cry from your original suggestion to "officially cede Crimea", though. There can be no legitimate referendum while a territory is under invasion. Suggesting a sovereign nation cede territory to an oppressive dictator who decided to invade it is antithetical to democracy, as is suggesting that said tyrant should be allowed to dictate which defensive alliance it joins.
- pydry 4y ago
  >A referendum is a far cry from your original suggestion to "officially cede Crimea", though The referendum already happened. My original suggestion was "respect the result" - what 90% or crimeans also want according to gallup - a western pollster. What you want is for their votes to be "corrected" to fall in line with strategic imperialist objectives. This is a position Putin would understand and respect. >There can be no legitimate referendum while a territory is under invasion. Actually I believe there can under three conditions: * The population want the referendum. * The referendum wouldnt have happened without invasion. * No vote coercion happened as a result of the invasion. All three conditions held for Crimea, as well as certain other places. These conditions held for Iraq also, for example. Once again: if you want to anull the results of a referendum because you dont like the result where there is no uncertainty about a free and fair result then you can only pretend to respect democracy.