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I think whataboutism is just a very nice word that is being used more and more in order to retain some sort of moral superiority and no accountability for actio

I think whataboutism is just a very nice word that is being used more and more in order to retain some sort of moral superiority and no accountability for actions, like we need to use two weights and two measures just otherwise we are whatabouting No it's not whataboutism it's just to make sure that when we say that Russia is crazy and US is some sort of holy state, we are trusting the wrong people to tell us what is just and correct and what is not So I am sorry but when the US tries to tell us about criminals and that what it takes to be just, I think only that it is the most criminal country in the history of the world, the only one to drop nuclear bombs on cilivian target cities or killing kids in Iraq and Afghanistan then jailing journalists or try to get them extradited, or spying on citizens of the world or backing israeli regime killing kids and journalists. Just as a way to remember who is telling us to give up everything we have and our stability, to be aware of the interlocutor, somehow. So at this point, we realise that US is a criminal state pursuing his own interest at the expense of the rest of the world, once we've established that, and that they don't care about human rights and freedom of press, since they support countries against that around the world for their interests, would we give up that? So when Biden speaks to Europeans saying you need to give up Russian gas for the track record of Russia, why Europeans don't reply that US need to give up its relationship with Saudi Arabia and Israel? Because the world is not unjust but european leaders are now pursuing US interests at their own expenses, and that is not good

ineedasername 4y ago
When you use bad actions by the US as justification for bad actions by Russia then you can call it whatever you want-- ditch "whataboutism" for you favored rationalization of choice, it's still a fundamentally flawed argument that avoids addressing the issue at hand in favor of hand waving non sequiturs and distractions. It shows either a fundamental disinterest in or inability to argue the issue on its own merits, and you continue that flawed course of arguments in your above comment. By all means condemn the US for any actions you believe are wrong. Argue for the same sorts of sanctions or other measure that you believe are merited if you think the US should be held to account for those things. But don't mistake your criticisms of the US or anyone else as coming anywhere close to a valid argument for why Russia is justified in its current course of actions. Don't mistake them for a valid argument against new NATO applicants fearful that they are next on Russia's hit list. No, instead you need to understand that you are defending Russia's actions as though they are a necessary response, when nothing could be further from the truth. In the wake of the Soviet breakup the remaining Russian Federation was extremely well poised to break out of its isolation and contribute significantly to the world with its rich culture & strong scientific tradition instead of just its commoditized natural resources. Instead it was coopted by oligarchical kleptocrats that stifled its vast potential. The world is poorer for Russian leadership's self-interests & self-dealing, and their short-sightedness now requires it to response with force to situations it could have managed to the net benefit of itself and its partners. Russia is not the victim here. Russia is not justified in its actions. It's been outplayed in economics & geopolitics only because its leadership never considered cooperation as a first-line stance on the world stage. If it feels "forced" into violence now it is only because its leadership has always extended the mailed fist instead of trying the velvet glove first. So it is no surprise that countries would flee that approach in favor the velvet glove that offers prosperity through cooperation before it extends the threat of force. The result is a military failure the will achieve every strategic horror it thought to fight against. It is severely weakened militarily, unable to defeat an enemy it should easily have bested even with the light weaponry aid provided to Ukraine, much of which only made it there after their initial failed invasion. This has shown the world how poorly prepared it is to project military power beyond its own borders, except by nuclear threat. From here on out, it can do very little militarily without resorting to threat of nuclear war. It now has almost not option in-between minor skirmish & nuclear bombs because its weak logistics and untrained troops are revealed to the world. In the broader geopolitical game it has reversed a decades-long decline in the relevance of NATO, a long sought strategic goal of theirs, and instead injected new life into the organization making it more relevant and stronger than it has been for a very long time. Just a few years ago there was strong support among many in the US to dismantle NATO or at least gut it by withdrawing, but now you'd be hard pressed to find more than a slim minority who believe NATO has outlived its purpose. Russia, by taking steps that you seem ready to support & justify, has weakened itself in every conceivable way. Point fingers at other awful things done by other countries all you want, you cannot get around this. You cannot avoid the fact that, even if Russia's actions were even minimally justified (they're not) they are a strategic disaster that will leave its unfortunate population worse off for at least a generation.

ineedasername 4y ago

When you use bad actions by the US as justification for bad actions by Russia then you can call it whatever you want-- ditch "whataboutism" for you favored rationalization of choice, it's still a fundamentally flawed argument that avoids addressing the issue at hand in favor of hand waving non sequiturs and distractions. It shows either a fundamental disinterest in or inability to argue the issue on its own merits, and you continue that flawed course of arguments in your above comment. By all means condemn the US for any actions you believe are wrong. Argue for the same sorts of sanctions or other measure that you believe are merited if you think the US should be held to account for those things. But don't mistake your criticisms of the US or anyone else as coming anywhere close to a valid argument for why Russia is justified in its current course of actions. Don't mistake them for a valid argument against new NATO applicants fearful that they are next on Russia's hit list. No, instead you need to understand that you are defending Russia's actions as though they are a necessary response, when nothing could be further from the truth. In the wake of the Soviet breakup the remaining Russian Federation was extremely well poised to break out of its isolation and contribute significantly to the world with its rich culture & strong scientific tradition instead of just its commoditized natural resources. Instead it was coopted by oligarchical kleptocrats that stifled its vast potential. The world is poorer for Russian leadership's self-interests & self-dealing, and their short-sightedness now requires it to response with force to situations it could have managed to the net benefit of itself and its partners. Russia is not the victim here. Russia is not justified in its actions. It's been outplayed in economics & geopolitics only because its leadership never considered cooperation as a first-line stance on the world stage. If it feels "forced" into violence now it is only because its leadership has always extended the mailed fist instead of trying the velvet glove first. So it is no surprise that countries would flee that approach in favor the velvet glove that offers prosperity through cooperation before it extends the threat of force. The result is a military failure the will achieve every strategic horror it thought to fight against. It is severely weakened militarily, unable to defeat an enemy it should easily have bested even with the light weaponry aid provided to Ukraine, much of which only made it there after their initial failed invasion. This has shown the world how poorly prepared it is to project military power beyond its own borders, except by nuclear threat. From here on out, it can do very little militarily without resorting to threat of nuclear war. It now has almost not option in-between minor skirmish & nuclear bombs because its weak logistics and untrained troops are revealed to the world. In the broader geopolitical game it has reversed a decades-long decline in the relevance of NATO, a long sought strategic goal of theirs, and instead injected new life into the organization making it more relevant and stronger than it has been for a very long time. Just a few years ago there was strong support among many in the US to dismantle NATO or at least gut it by withdrawing, but now you'd be hard pressed to find more than a slim minority who believe NATO has outlived its purpose. Russia, by taking steps that you seem ready to support & justify, has weakened itself in every conceivable way. Point fingers at other awful things done by other countries all you want, you cannot get around this. You cannot avoid the fact that, even if Russia's actions were even minimally justified (they're not) they are a strategic disaster that will leave its unfortunate population worse off for at least a generation.