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I acknowledge that analogies fail at a certain remove. I wasn’t particularly trying to make a comparison to the housing market, it was just the example that sp

• Clubber 4y ago
  >Any market should operate similarly, no? Ya if you ignore all the forces on that market, supply and demand forces work great in a vacuum. Unfortunately everyone remembers chapter 1 of their Econ book but forgets chapter 2+ (myself included). There are a lot of ways to manipulate those supply and demand forces. Employers certainly have a lot more power to manipulate them than employees do. "Market wages," are one. Who says they are market wages and wages for what position? >[1] https://www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/tech-salaries-just- https://www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/tech-salaries-just-... I think articles like these try to lump everyone as a "technologist," and it's too broad a category to be useful information. >A "widespread hunger" for technology professionals has see the average salary for technologists in the US hit a record high of $104,566 Imagine that was "healthcare workers," where they averaged in the salaries of the doctors, neurosurgeons, hospital administration and all the high paid workers, then ponder why nurses think they are underpaid when the average healthcare worker salary is $200K a year. They are misrepresenting what nurses make by obfuscating their actual wage/hours with "average healthcare worker salary." This also goes back to the "average market wages," discussion. If a company tried to hire an architect and said that they pay market wages, but the market wages they site are the average of all technology workers, the salary would be considered low for the architect. Depending on his circumstance, he might be willing to take it though. >real examples of corporate malfeasance / runaway capitalism / extortionate price extraction and how much of it is standard side-effects of the way markets operate. I think it's both. The big problem is the government opened the doors with free trade and H1B visas and it really hurt US workers. Sure it arguably helps the poor in other countries to a degree, but it really helps corporations; both at the expense of the US worker. Those laws probably weren't enacted for the long term benefit of the constituency.
  • mattcwilson 4y ago
    I am sincerely having difficulty parsing your argument. I think you are saying: 1. Despite the news articles, tech workers by and large are underpaid. 2. Some exceptions to 1 exist that are sufficiently large and outsized that they are carrying the average. After discounting those individuals, tech wages are below what they should be. 3. Free trade and H1B visas are allowing large numbers of non-US tech talent into the hiring supply; this is driving down wages at the expense of the American tech worker. 4. Regardless of the fact that the supply of these workers is driving down wages as econ 1 would dictate, actual market wages should be much higher, because... (this is where I’m losing you)?
    • formerkrogemp 4y ago
      I'm not the person you were discussing this with. I posted the first post about this up thread I think. I think you did a good job of summarizing the sentiment, yes. On 3, I think immigration is good, but it can also depress wages. I agree with 1 and 2 generally. On 4, I think that the revenue per employee in the tech industry vs salary is absolutely ridiculous and that tech workers need a union or higher wages across the industry. I would like to see a higher share of profits going to labor more generally rather than capital. I'm not against profit, but I think that the American worker has been cheated out wages correlating with rising productivity. Now I'm not saying that corporations are holding workers at gunpoint with a ski mask. You should dismiss that mental image. However, Mr. Wilson, I hope that you consider, with all of the retirements and demographics favoring workers now, that this could be a seminal moment for workers to organize and achieve fair wages for perhaps the first time in 40 years. However, outsourcing, scope creep, up-skilling, and automation are all factors, broadly, that could depress wage or job growth or neuter labor organization and rights. Stagnation and inflation could take bites out of the metaphorical apple as well. I'm not denying (most?) tech workers are paid highly relative to other industries. I think for the revenue that they generate or that they protect that they ought to be paid more. However, I think the stress/pay disparity with other industries has and will attract a lot of talent to IT and programming that could depress wages. Nurses, waiters, grocery workers, retail workers, and so forth aren't being paid enough to work in many places or commensurate with the working conditions or education or abuse from customers. There's too much to say and not enough space/time. I hope that summarizes my take on the issue for you, Mr. Wilson.