4 ms·

From the Turkish perspective, why would they allow someone who supports their enemies to join the alliance? I guess both Swedish and Finnish government would b

From the Turkish perspective, why would they allow someone who supports their enemies to join the alliance? I guess both Swedish and Finnish government would both need to swallow a few frogs to comply with these requirements. At least, they won't be able to maintain a moral high horse over Turkey any more after complying.

theshrike79 4y ago
> From the Turkish perspective, why would they allow someone who supports their enemies to join the alliance? ...because neither country is supporting Erdoğan's enemies? The dictator is just posturing for his own people, he'll never actually dare to vote against every other country in NATO.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mabbo 4y ago
> why would they allow someone who supports their enemies to join the alliance? Because Russia is still the scarier enemy. If the rest of NATO approves, what is Turkey going to do? Leave NATO and accept eventual invasion?
- srhngpr 4y ago
  If I recall correctly, it requires unanimous vote of approval.
  - tuukkah 4y ago
    Everyone else leaves NATO and sets up NATO2 where Sweden and Finland are members but Turkey is not.
    - xhevahir 4y ago
      That sounds like a very big and complicated undertaking, both politically and militarily. Turkey has NATO's second-largest army, for one thing.
      - tuukkah 4y ago
        Perhaps it's more important to have Turkey in NATO than Sweden and Finland, but I honestly don't know. I hear Finland has a strong army and it's useful to have all of the Baltic Sea countries in NATO.
        xxpor 4y ago
        Turkey's location is incredibly important strategically. They control access to the Black Sea.
      - tuukkah 4y ago
        Turkey is second-largest based on manpower, right? Time to update that ranking soon: Turkey 775,000 vs Finland 937,000 military personnel available
        m00dy 4y ago
        hahahha :D You missed the fact that every turk born as a soldier when it comes to availability :)
- mk89 4y ago
  As far as I know, it has to be approved unanimously, so Turkey can say "NO" and nothing will happen. The point is that ... today Turkey makes demands, sure, but tomorrow it's someone else, or event today itself, except that Turkey is more "dramatic" about it. Who knows what Finland and Sweden actually have to "give" in order to join NATO. That's life, and that's also okay. Which is BTW similar to what's happening to EU: they realized that some states have too much power in the admission process, so they want to "speed up" the process. Probably they will go for a "3/4" of the members have to say YES. That kind of stuff. Same old, same old.
alkonaut 4y ago
> From the Turkish perspective, why would they allow someone who supports their enemies to join the alliance? This makes it sound like Sweden does something that other NATO members don't. That's not the case. Sweden supports the SDC in syria, which supports the YPG, which is connected to the PKK. And this is controversial in several of the countries that do this, including the US. While it's true that it's Sweden applying for membership and not anyone else, the logical thing for Turkey to do here is to try to pressure the whole alliance to adopt some policy change (such as a terror clasification for YPG, and/or no more aid to SDC and connected groups).
- mcv 4y ago
  Exactly. Turkey's objection doesn't really have much to do with Sweden and Finland, it's more an opportunity for Turkey to get concessions from other NATO members on an issue on which Turkey disagrees with the rest of NATO: the Kurds.
pdabbadabba 4y ago
> From the Turkish perspective, why would they allow someone who supports their enemies to join the alliance? Because the accession process provides Turkey an opportunity to apply leverage against Sweden and Finland to change their behavior. Simply refusing to allow it would gain Turkey nothing and harm them indirectly by weakening (or failing to strengthen) an alliance that Turkey depends on for its own security.

theshrike79 4y ago

> From the Turkish perspective, why would they allow someone who supports their enemies to join the alliance? ...because neither country is supporting Erdoğan's enemies? The dictator is just posturing for his own people, he'll never actually dare to vote against every other country in NATO.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

mabbo 4y ago

> why would they allow someone who supports their enemies to join the alliance? Because Russia is still the scarier enemy. If the rest of NATO approves, what is Turkey going to do? Leave NATO and accept eventual invasion?

srhngpr 4y ago
If I recall correctly, it requires unanimous vote of approval.
- tuukkah 4y ago
  Everyone else leaves NATO and sets up NATO2 where Sweden and Finland are members but Turkey is not.
  - xhevahir 4y ago
    That sounds like a very big and complicated undertaking, both politically and militarily. Turkey has NATO's second-largest army, for one thing.
    - tuukkah 4y ago
      Perhaps it's more important to have Turkey in NATO than Sweden and Finland, but I honestly don't know. I hear Finland has a strong army and it's useful to have all of the Baltic Sea countries in NATO.
      - xxpor 4y ago
        Turkey's location is incredibly important strategically. They control access to the Black Sea.
    - tuukkah 4y ago
      Turkey is second-largest based on manpower, right? Time to update that ranking soon: Turkey 775,000 vs Finland 937,000 military personnel available
      - m00dy 4y ago
        hahahha :D You missed the fact that every turk born as a soldier when it comes to availability :)
mk89 4y ago
As far as I know, it has to be approved unanimously, so Turkey can say "NO" and nothing will happen. The point is that ... today Turkey makes demands, sure, but tomorrow it's someone else, or event today itself, except that Turkey is more "dramatic" about it. Who knows what Finland and Sweden actually have to "give" in order to join NATO. That's life, and that's also okay. Which is BTW similar to what's happening to EU: they realized that some states have too much power in the admission process, so they want to "speed up" the process. Probably they will go for a "3/4" of the members have to say YES. That kind of stuff. Same old, same old.

alkonaut 4y ago

> From the Turkish perspective, why would they allow someone who supports their enemies to join the alliance? This makes it sound like Sweden does something that other NATO members don't. That's not the case. Sweden supports the SDC in syria, which supports the YPG, which is connected to the PKK. And this is controversial in several of the countries that do this, including the US. While it's true that it's Sweden applying for membership and not anyone else, the logical thing for Turkey to do here is to try to pressure the whole alliance to adopt some policy change (such as a terror clasification for YPG, and/or no more aid to SDC and connected groups).

mcv 4y ago
Exactly. Turkey's objection doesn't really have much to do with Sweden and Finland, it's more an opportunity for Turkey to get concessions from other NATO members on an issue on which Turkey disagrees with the rest of NATO: the Kurds.

pdabbadabba 4y ago

> From the Turkish perspective, why would they allow someone who supports their enemies to join the alliance? Because the accession process provides Turkey an opportunity to apply leverage against Sweden and Finland to change their behavior. Simply refusing to allow it would gain Turkey nothing and harm them indirectly by weakening (or failing to strengthen) an alliance that Turkey depends on for its own security.