5 ms·

Carton design, or not, I don't buy orange juice anymore because I don't know what "Made from Real Oranges*" means anymore. Over time, I came to learn that stra

Carton design, or not, I don't buy orange juice anymore because I don't know what "Made from Real Oranges*" means anymore. Over time, I came to learn that straightforward claims like these are engineered to deceive. Tropicana could use 100% real oranges, and I still wouldn't believe them. I could inspect the ingredients, and even then, it's dubious- companies have found ways to circumvent the rules there too. Instead of all this mental gymnastics I have to do at the grocery store, I just decided to abandon the product completely.

ineedasername 4y ago
I would be suspicious of any orange juice where the company feels the need to stipulate "real orange juice". What the heck else would it be made of? Reminds me of "ice cream" which, in a lot of cases, is not. Mixed in the ice cream section next to identical looking cartons of different flavors Breuer's is a big culprit) are things that say "whipped dairy dessert" in the place that others say "ice cream".
- credittw2021 4y ago
  One common-ish case would be from concentrate, since ostensibly it is just the water removed and then re added. However, you're at that point substituting the natural water for whatever is at the bottling source. This does lead me to an interesting question, that being whether one could make orange juice from frozen concentrate that is 'better' than store bought and reconstituted at a factory
- xattt 4y ago
  I wonder if the same health equivalency applies to jam and it’s analogues. There’s double-fruit jam that doesn’t identify as jam, but as a fruit spread. It seems like a healthier choice, due to higher bulk of fruit purée versus standard jam on toast (which I assume has more sugar).
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- tjr 4y ago
  There are surprisingly strict rules about ice cream terminology pertaining to ingredient ratios. Is it ice cream? Ice milk? Custard? Etc. An ice cream-like product that is not actually "ice cream" is not necessarily inferior. With orange juice... not sure. There's long been the distinction between "from concentrate" and "not from concentrate", but both were still considered actual orange.
- mikkergp 4y ago
  I imagine this was in response to a mid to late 20th century processed foods culture where things like tang and sunny d were widespread. Lots of “Orange Drink” I remember in the wire Frank sobotka talked about all the Tang he drank because it’s “what the astronauts drank”.
  - ineedasername 4y ago
    Ah, yes. I remember my mom brought home Tang one time from the supermarket. We love our mom, but to use the phrase parents use with their kids, we told her "we are very disappointed in you. We expect you to make better choices".
- michaelt 4y ago
  > What the heck else would it be made of? In my country, there are also concentrated 'orange squash' drinks which have some real fruit, and also some flavouring and sweeteners. They taste different to pure orange juice, they're substantially cheaper and they have very low sugar/calorie content.
  - wlonkly 4y ago
    Sounds like the Americans' "Sunny Delight", a childhood staple but also kind of.. not quite juice.
- Cthulhu_ 4y ago
  At least some products can not legally be called something they're not, like "sandwich slices" or "singles" instead of "cheese".
- micromacrofoot 4y ago
  Tang, Sunny D, and Kool-aid basically ruined the entire juice industry by popularizing adding artificial flavor and coloring to sugar water. IMO they shouldn't even be allowed to show images of fruit in their packaging/marketing, shouldn't be able to market to kids, and they should have a surgeon general's warning about obesity akin to cigarette packaging and cancer. I've accidentally bought what I thought was fruit juice more than one time, and learned my lesson about reading the label. Many people might not ever bother.
- sebastien_bois 4y ago
  >I would be suspicious of any orange juice where the company feels the need to stipulate "real orange juice". What the heck else would it be made of? You're right to be suspicious; most juices are not just "freshly squeezed" from a fruit - they're processed. Part of the "process" is to actually extract the sweetest part of the juice and leave the rest behind (so way more sugary than "natural") and some will actually contain some other forms of filler (like non-orange based oils). It's a lot like McNuggets or Subway chicken sandwiches - they're made "from real chicken" but with all of added the salt and fillers, you end up wondering exactly how much of it is actual chicken. One of the best way to evaluate "real juice" is by how long it'll last before it expires (either shelf life or after opening) - more than a few days will indicate there's extra preservatives, etc. in it.
bin_bash 4y ago
Juice in general just seems terribly unhealthy in 2022. I enjoy it as a treat now and again but think of it more like a dessert rather than a part of my daily breakfast routine.
- was_a_dev 4y ago
  Non-ironically, the only time I drink Tropicana, or any fruit juice anymore is when I buy it at McDonald's
- subpixel 4y ago
  It's just one of those weird things that people, especially Americans, have been conditioned to think is wholesome. After some time not drinking it, orange juice is almost sickeningly sweet to me.
  - bin_bash 4y ago
    traditionally yeah (my dad has orange juice every morning) but I don't think it's seen that way anymore for younger generations for most people
- ziml77 4y ago
  It seemed terribly unhealthy back in 2012 too. You get all the sugar and none of the fiber. But many people have this weird idea about "natural" being healthy or that being derived from something healthy means it's still healthy. If we called them processed or refined fruit drinks, I'd bet you'd find people become averse to fruit juice.
  - bin_bash 4y ago
    yeah I was thinking more like 1982
noisy_boy 4y ago
I went through a phase where I was buying oranges and preparing fresh juice everyday at home. About a month or so into it, I bought packaged juice - it tasted like crap. My brain had gotten used to the real stuff and the difference was night and day. Eventually my laziness got better of me and I got tired of buying and carrying loads of oranges but that experience completely turned me off from packaged juice.
nkurz 4y ago
> I don't buy orange juice anymore because I don't know what "Made from Real Oranges*" means anymore. Don't be silly --- it means you are buying juice from oranges that has been stripped of all flavor, stored in tankers for a year or two, and then reconstituted by adding "flavor packs" built by recombining the chemicals found in different oranges. Pretending this isn't clear to consumers is just anti-progress. Along those lines, the book "Squeezed" is pretty good, and details the argument of the Tropicana lawyers who actually make this argument. Here's a New Yorker article about it: https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/ask-an-academic-orange-juice https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/ask-an-academic-....
- johnday 4y ago
  I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but I really don't think this is "clear to consumers".
  - Jarmsy 4y ago
    They're definitely being sarcastic
    - dredmorbius 4y ago
      SRSLY? ;-)
  - nkurz 4y ago
    I'm being sarcastic that it is "clear", and being genuine when I say that orange juice industry lawyers argue that consumers are not confused about what "Not From Concentrate" means despite such contortions. I do highly recommend Hamilton's Squeezed book for a more detailed expose. It's available from libraries, both physical and online. It's not for everyone, but if you care a lot about food regulation and the way that producers get around the law to deceive consumers, it's great.
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
I don't know the product at all, but given the phrase "no pulp" on the packaging I'm sure it's from concentrate; mass produced orange juice, reduced and put into these 1000 liter pallet containers and shipped from who knows where, then rehydrated and packaged. I mean we have our apple juice like that; it's cheap and a crowd pleaser, but it's not the same as fresh juice. Economies of scale though. I wouldn't be surprised if concentrate is 100x as efficient in transport than the equivalent in juice oranges would be.
scythe 4y ago
On the plus side, increasing awareness of the problem has made it more common to see actual fresh orange juice squeezed onsite at stores. And it's delicious.

ineedasername 4y ago

I would be suspicious of any orange juice where the company feels the need to stipulate "real orange juice". What the heck else would it be made of? Reminds me of "ice cream" which, in a lot of cases, is not. Mixed in the ice cream section next to identical looking cartons of different flavors Breuer's is a big culprit) are things that say "whipped dairy dessert" in the place that others say "ice cream".

credittw2021 4y ago
One common-ish case would be from concentrate, since ostensibly it is just the water removed and then re added. However, you're at that point substituting the natural water for whatever is at the bottling source. This does lead me to an interesting question, that being whether one could make orange juice from frozen concentrate that is 'better' than store bought and reconstituted at a factory
xattt 4y ago
I wonder if the same health equivalency applies to jam and it’s analogues. There’s double-fruit jam that doesn’t identify as jam, but as a fruit spread. It seems like a healthier choice, due to higher bulk of fruit purée versus standard jam on toast (which I assume has more sugar).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
tjr 4y ago
There are surprisingly strict rules about ice cream terminology pertaining to ingredient ratios. Is it ice cream? Ice milk? Custard? Etc. An ice cream-like product that is not actually "ice cream" is not necessarily inferior. With orange juice... not sure. There's long been the distinction between "from concentrate" and "not from concentrate", but both were still considered actual orange.
mikkergp 4y ago
I imagine this was in response to a mid to late 20th century processed foods culture where things like tang and sunny d were widespread. Lots of “Orange Drink” I remember in the wire Frank sobotka talked about all the Tang he drank because it’s “what the astronauts drank”.
- ineedasername 4y ago
  Ah, yes. I remember my mom brought home Tang one time from the supermarket. We love our mom, but to use the phrase parents use with their kids, we told her "we are very disappointed in you. We expect you to make better choices".
michaelt 4y ago
> What the heck else would it be made of? In my country, there are also concentrated 'orange squash' drinks which have some real fruit, and also some flavouring and sweeteners. They taste different to pure orange juice, they're substantially cheaper and they have very low sugar/calorie content.
- wlonkly 4y ago
  Sounds like the Americans' "Sunny Delight", a childhood staple but also kind of.. not quite juice.
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
At least some products can not legally be called something they're not, like "sandwich slices" or "singles" instead of "cheese".
micromacrofoot 4y ago
Tang, Sunny D, and Kool-aid basically ruined the entire juice industry by popularizing adding artificial flavor and coloring to sugar water. IMO they shouldn't even be allowed to show images of fruit in their packaging/marketing, shouldn't be able to market to kids, and they should have a surgeon general's warning about obesity akin to cigarette packaging and cancer. I've accidentally bought what I thought was fruit juice more than one time, and learned my lesson about reading the label. Many people might not ever bother.
sebastien_bois 4y ago
>I would be suspicious of any orange juice where the company feels the need to stipulate "real orange juice". What the heck else would it be made of? You're right to be suspicious; most juices are not just "freshly squeezed" from a fruit - they're processed. Part of the "process" is to actually extract the sweetest part of the juice and leave the rest behind (so way more sugary than "natural") and some will actually contain some other forms of filler (like non-orange based oils). It's a lot like McNuggets or Subway chicken sandwiches - they're made "from real chicken" but with all of added the salt and fillers, you end up wondering exactly how much of it is actual chicken. One of the best way to evaluate "real juice" is by how long it'll last before it expires (either shelf life or after opening) - more than a few days will indicate there's extra preservatives, etc. in it.

bin_bash 4y ago

Juice in general just seems terribly unhealthy in 2022. I enjoy it as a treat now and again but think of it more like a dessert rather than a part of my daily breakfast routine.

was_a_dev 4y ago
Non-ironically, the only time I drink Tropicana, or any fruit juice anymore is when I buy it at McDonald's
subpixel 4y ago
It's just one of those weird things that people, especially Americans, have been conditioned to think is wholesome. After some time not drinking it, orange juice is almost sickeningly sweet to me.
- bin_bash 4y ago
  traditionally yeah (my dad has orange juice every morning) but I don't think it's seen that way anymore for younger generations for most people
ziml77 4y ago
It seemed terribly unhealthy back in 2012 too. You get all the sugar and none of the fiber. But many people have this weird idea about "natural" being healthy or that being derived from something healthy means it's still healthy. If we called them processed or refined fruit drinks, I'd bet you'd find people become averse to fruit juice.
- bin_bash 4y ago
  yeah I was thinking more like 1982

noisy_boy 4y ago

I went through a phase where I was buying oranges and preparing fresh juice everyday at home. About a month or so into it, I bought packaged juice - it tasted like crap. My brain had gotten used to the real stuff and the difference was night and day. Eventually my laziness got better of me and I got tired of buying and carrying loads of oranges but that experience completely turned me off from packaged juice.

nkurz 4y ago

> I don't buy orange juice anymore because I don't know what "Made from Real Oranges*" means anymore. Don't be silly --- it means you are buying juice from oranges that has been stripped of all flavor, stored in tankers for a year or two, and then reconstituted by adding "flavor packs" built by recombining the chemicals found in different oranges. Pretending this isn't clear to consumers is just anti-progress. Along those lines, the book "Squeezed" is pretty good, and details the argument of the Tropicana lawyers who actually make this argument. Here's a New Yorker article about it: https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/ask-an-academic-orange-juice https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/ask-an-academic-....

johnday 4y ago
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but I really don't think this is "clear to consumers".
- Jarmsy 4y ago
  They're definitely being sarcastic
  - dredmorbius 4y ago
    SRSLY? ;-)
- nkurz 4y ago
  I'm being sarcastic that it is "clear", and being genuine when I say that orange juice industry lawyers argue that consumers are not confused about what "Not From Concentrate" means despite such contortions. I do highly recommend Hamilton's Squeezed book for a more detailed expose. It's available from libraries, both physical and online. It's not for everyone, but if you care a lot about food regulation and the way that producers get around the law to deceive consumers, it's great.

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

I don't know the product at all, but given the phrase "no pulp" on the packaging I'm sure it's from concentrate; mass produced orange juice, reduced and put into these 1000 liter pallet containers and shipped from who knows where, then rehydrated and packaged. I mean we have our apple juice like that; it's cheap and a crowd pleaser, but it's not the same as fresh juice. Economies of scale though. I wouldn't be surprised if concentrate is 100x as efficient in transport than the equivalent in juice oranges would be.

scythe 4y ago

On the plus side, increasing awareness of the problem has made it more common to see actual fresh orange juice squeezed onsite at stores. And it's delicious.