4 ms·

This is fraud. If the firm doesn’t have an open role available but advertises as such, and then extracts free labor as a ruse, it’s fraud.

cbg0 4y ago
Good luck proving that.
- 6510 4y ago
  It is very easy to hammer it into law. Government should treat the fake job formula like what it is: Sabotage of the economy. In our system applicants have to pay for their own education, spend time doing it and government is investing in education. We are extremely serious about training and employment. Parties that want to get involved should be held to high standards. It's not like we've never created (and enforced) a standard for anything.
  - robertlagrant 4y ago
    You're talking about how outrageous it is, but not how a legal test for it would work without doing more harm than good.
    - 6510 4y ago
      heh, I deleted that part of my post as there are more qualified (dare I say competent) people to create such laws. It could for example work like this (which is much like it use to work in the Netherlands) - If you are looking for work or if you are looking to improve your position you must submit your resume to the government agency. (Ideally this agency also makes an effort to preserve and validate diplomas and previous employment) You provide a salary indication, travel time and if you are willing to relocate for a new job. - If you are looking to hire someone or are looking to replace someone you must submit your job offer to the government agency. A rather large fee must be paid. (700-3000 euro) The agency also makes an effort to preserve previous offers and has access to current employment. - An appointment is scheduled. The employer (or employee) must attend this meeting. You are left very little room for rescheduling. The point of the meeting is to establish how serious you are about hiring (or getting hired). The offer (or resume) is examined and the agency employee asks questions. - Even the vaguest hint you are not being serious results in termination of services. (The employer shall lose the fee.) They may try again in 3 months or 12 depending on how much of a troll they are. - Since the investigator has access to a lot of data they can quickly (or at a later date) point out where the job offer is unrealistic. Minimum wage for skills in high demand is not an acceptable offer. - After the interrogation the investigator compares available resumes to the job offer and schedules a new appointment for the employer and up to 4 candidates. - The next meeting starts with the investigator briefly describing the upcoming candidates. - The potential employees one by one get to sit next to the employer in front of the desk. The investigator starts each interview with the glorification of the company looking to hire and asks the employee if they have any questions. - Then the employer is granted a bit of room to ask his questions. - After the final applicant is interviewed the investigator gives his preference to the employer but they are free to chose one of the other applicants. The employer orders the acceptable applicants by preference. - If non of the applicants are satisfying the job description is considered insufficient. If it is mildly insufficient a new job offer can be filled for which a new fee shall be paid. If it is terribly insufficient the employer will have to wait for 3 months before trying again. - If the investigator agrees the available candidates are poor fits for the job opening the offer shall remain open and compared against new resumes. - Each employee gets up to 4 interviews. They may chose who to work for if they are the preferred candidate. If they didn't make it to the top of the list they get additional interviews. - If they decline what the investigator considers a great offer they get no further service for 3-12 months. A great offer must be substantial improvement over their current job. - If any party is unhappy with the result they must fill an appeal with an independent oversight committee. The investigator will assist with filling out the forms. - If the new hire fails to live up to expectations the employer must schedule a meeting and discuss this with the investigator. The biggest advantage of the formula is that the employer is not the authority figure in the room. They are as much the subject of the process as the applicant. Demonstrate poor behavior and you are out.
      - robertlagrant 4y ago
        > The biggest advantage of the formula is that the employer is not the authority figure in the room. This is the case for how employment works now. If you turn employment from "an agreement between two parties, each of whom has a direct interest in picking the right thing for themselves" and you instead grant almost all of the power in the agreement to the state, with none of the responsibility, aren't you creating the world's biggest principal-agent problem? With all the corruption that entails?
s_dev 4y ago
It's also a terrible security practice to advertise. Getting a remote code execution bug in to production would only entail building a free feature for the company and getting it past a trivial code review during an interview you could subsequently turn down!

cbg0 4y ago

Good luck proving that.

6510 4y ago
It is very easy to hammer it into law. Government should treat the fake job formula like what it is: Sabotage of the economy. In our system applicants have to pay for their own education, spend time doing it and government is investing in education. We are extremely serious about training and employment. Parties that want to get involved should be held to high standards. It's not like we've never created (and enforced) a standard for anything.
- robertlagrant 4y ago
  You're talking about how outrageous it is, but not how a legal test for it would work without doing more harm than good.
  - 6510 4y ago
    heh, I deleted that part of my post as there are more qualified (dare I say competent) people to create such laws. It could for example work like this (which is much like it use to work in the Netherlands) - If you are looking for work or if you are looking to improve your position you must submit your resume to the government agency. (Ideally this agency also makes an effort to preserve and validate diplomas and previous employment) You provide a salary indication, travel time and if you are willing to relocate for a new job. - If you are looking to hire someone or are looking to replace someone you must submit your job offer to the government agency. A rather large fee must be paid. (700-3000 euro) The agency also makes an effort to preserve previous offers and has access to current employment. - An appointment is scheduled. The employer (or employee) must attend this meeting. You are left very little room for rescheduling. The point of the meeting is to establish how serious you are about hiring (or getting hired). The offer (or resume) is examined and the agency employee asks questions. - Even the vaguest hint you are not being serious results in termination of services. (The employer shall lose the fee.) They may try again in 3 months or 12 depending on how much of a troll they are. - Since the investigator has access to a lot of data they can quickly (or at a later date) point out where the job offer is unrealistic. Minimum wage for skills in high demand is not an acceptable offer. - After the interrogation the investigator compares available resumes to the job offer and schedules a new appointment for the employer and up to 4 candidates. - The next meeting starts with the investigator briefly describing the upcoming candidates. - The potential employees one by one get to sit next to the employer in front of the desk. The investigator starts each interview with the glorification of the company looking to hire and asks the employee if they have any questions. - Then the employer is granted a bit of room to ask his questions. - After the final applicant is interviewed the investigator gives his preference to the employer but they are free to chose one of the other applicants. The employer orders the acceptable applicants by preference. - If non of the applicants are satisfying the job description is considered insufficient. If it is mildly insufficient a new job offer can be filled for which a new fee shall be paid. If it is terribly insufficient the employer will have to wait for 3 months before trying again. - If the investigator agrees the available candidates are poor fits for the job opening the offer shall remain open and compared against new resumes. - Each employee gets up to 4 interviews. They may chose who to work for if they are the preferred candidate. If they didn't make it to the top of the list they get additional interviews. - If they decline what the investigator considers a great offer they get no further service for 3-12 months. A great offer must be substantial improvement over their current job. - If any party is unhappy with the result they must fill an appeal with an independent oversight committee. The investigator will assist with filling out the forms. - If the new hire fails to live up to expectations the employer must schedule a meeting and discuss this with the investigator. The biggest advantage of the formula is that the employer is not the authority figure in the room. They are as much the subject of the process as the applicant. Demonstrate poor behavior and you are out.
    - robertlagrant 4y ago
      > The biggest advantage of the formula is that the employer is not the authority figure in the room. This is the case for how employment works now. If you turn employment from "an agreement between two parties, each of whom has a direct interest in picking the right thing for themselves" and you instead grant almost all of the power in the agreement to the state, with none of the responsibility, aren't you creating the world's biggest principal-agent problem? With all the corruption that entails?

s_dev 4y ago

It's also a terrible security practice to advertise. Getting a remote code execution bug in to production would only entail building a free feature for the company and getting it past a trivial code review during an interview you could subsequently turn down!