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Every company I have worked at has been the same - very depressed people who have no enthusiasm for anything slowly dying as they sit there staring at the compu

Every company I have worked at has been the same - very depressed people who have no enthusiasm for anything slowly dying as they sit there staring at the computer. It is in stark contrast to the physical labour jobs I have had, which have been very lively and happy places to work. I think the assumption that these people want to program for more than 2 hours per day is probably wrong, and you will just burn yourself out trying to do 8 hours of programming every day. In fact, many of these people burnt out long ago and just try to find anything other than programming to do. I wonder though, it is true that these companies are very inefficient, yet they never get taken over or superseded. Why can't the group of rogue programmers that are more productive take over any of these companies?

mellavora 4y ago
Interesting observation. I wonder how much of the difference is between high physical activity, where often the work requires multiple people manipulating the same physical object (I hold the door, you attach the hinge), vs low physical activity, where often the work requires multiple people manipulating highly abstract concepts with purely imaginary connections (I write the API, you write the caller).
- ethbr0 4y ago
  The physical/non-physical distinction might be a bit of a red herring, as this seems more a differentiation between repetitive and non-repetitive work. I.e. assembly line worker vs carpenter I'd hazard most people tend to dislike repetitive work, if they have the choice.
  - bigDinosaur 4y ago
    Yes, although repetitive physical (exertive) work is a bit less soul destroying if only because it makes you too tired to think about it too much.
    - ethbr0 4y ago
      As someone who has dug ditches in Georgia clay, agreed. Although I guess even the most repetitive physical task still has infinite physical fidelity, if you look for it. E.g. digging a hole in the same place 50 times vs writing the same code 50 times.
  - BeFlatXIII 4y ago
    It's the middle ground that is mind-destroying. Extremely repetitive work lets you turn your brain off or redirect it to more worthwhile thoughts. Non-repetitive work keeps your brain engaged with the task at hand. The middle ground requires too much engagement to focus on other things but also leaves too many gaps to remain focused on the nominal task.
  - m3047 4y ago
    Our minds generally don't work well on repetitive tasks requiring high concentration with low interactivity. Yet, we're so irrational we can't see the obvious. Take a "self driving car". Except... you can't really crawl into the back seat and eat lunch. No. Are you kidding me? You have to pay attention! You have to be ready to grab the wheel! A walrus could be napping on the freeway! Just because it's self driving doesn't mean you don't have to pay attention! Good god, what's wrong with you? What's wrong with us, collectively, is we don't immediately recognize the absurdity of what they're saying. There's really something very very wrong with that person.
mytailorisrich 4y ago
> Every company I have worked at has been the same - very depressed people who have no enthusiasm for anything slowly dying as they sit there staring at the computer. It is in stark contrast to the physical labour jobs I have had, which have been very lively and happy places to work. They even made a movie with that premise (Office Space).
throwaway235203 4y ago
I work in bursts. I probably code 1/3 of the work week. The rest is spent on meetings, helping others, looking at logs/data and keeping up to date on tech. I think that is a healthy balance. There are many ways of adding value to a business.
lupire 4y ago
People burn out on programming for two reasons: 1. For whatever external or internal reason, they fail at writing good software for a long time 2. The job takes a terrible physical toll (lack of exercise) Neither of these are improved by larping at corporate business stuff around the office. Maybe line cooks at slow restaurants have fun getting high and chatting while they cook, but many many jobs are physically painful, intensive and low-rest, and/or high stress and bad hours service work.
- yunwal 4y ago
  I feel like line cook is the worst example of a fun physical job. Most of the line cooks I know are incredibly burnt out and survive their 12 hour shifts by abusing cocaine and amphetamines. Landscape contracting seems much tamer by comparison.

mellavora 4y ago

Interesting observation. I wonder how much of the difference is between high physical activity, where often the work requires multiple people manipulating the same physical object (I hold the door, you attach the hinge), vs low physical activity, where often the work requires multiple people manipulating highly abstract concepts with purely imaginary connections (I write the API, you write the caller).

ethbr0 4y ago
The physical/non-physical distinction might be a bit of a red herring, as this seems more a differentiation between repetitive and non-repetitive work. I.e. assembly line worker vs carpenter I'd hazard most people tend to dislike repetitive work, if they have the choice.
- bigDinosaur 4y ago
  Yes, although repetitive physical (exertive) work is a bit less soul destroying if only because it makes you too tired to think about it too much.
  - ethbr0 4y ago
    As someone who has dug ditches in Georgia clay, agreed. Although I guess even the most repetitive physical task still has infinite physical fidelity, if you look for it. E.g. digging a hole in the same place 50 times vs writing the same code 50 times.
- BeFlatXIII 4y ago
  It's the middle ground that is mind-destroying. Extremely repetitive work lets you turn your brain off or redirect it to more worthwhile thoughts. Non-repetitive work keeps your brain engaged with the task at hand. The middle ground requires too much engagement to focus on other things but also leaves too many gaps to remain focused on the nominal task.
- m3047 4y ago
  Our minds generally don't work well on repetitive tasks requiring high concentration with low interactivity. Yet, we're so irrational we can't see the obvious. Take a "self driving car". Except... you can't really crawl into the back seat and eat lunch. No. Are you kidding me? You have to pay attention! You have to be ready to grab the wheel! A walrus could be napping on the freeway! Just because it's self driving doesn't mean you don't have to pay attention! Good god, what's wrong with you? What's wrong with us, collectively, is we don't immediately recognize the absurdity of what they're saying. There's really something very very wrong with that person.

mytailorisrich 4y ago

> Every company I have worked at has been the same - very depressed people who have no enthusiasm for anything slowly dying as they sit there staring at the computer. It is in stark contrast to the physical labour jobs I have had, which have been very lively and happy places to work. They even made a movie with that premise (Office Space).

throwaway235203 4y ago

I work in bursts. I probably code 1/3 of the work week. The rest is spent on meetings, helping others, looking at logs/data and keeping up to date on tech. I think that is a healthy balance. There are many ways of adding value to a business.

lupire 4y ago

People burn out on programming for two reasons: 1. For whatever external or internal reason, they fail at writing good software for a long time 2. The job takes a terrible physical toll (lack of exercise) Neither of these are improved by larping at corporate business stuff around the office. Maybe line cooks at slow restaurants have fun getting high and chatting while they cook, but many many jobs are physically painful, intensive and low-rest, and/or high stress and bad hours service work.

yunwal 4y ago
I feel like line cook is the worst example of a fun physical job. Most of the line cooks I know are incredibly burnt out and survive their 12 hour shifts by abusing cocaine and amphetamines. Landscape contracting seems much tamer by comparison.