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Money is one issue, time is another. In most US jurisdictions, dozens of entities have the ability to say "no" to a development project. In states that are act

by Duff 15y ago

Money is one issue, time is another. In most US jurisdictions, dozens of entities have the ability to say "no" to a development project. In states that are actively hostile to business, like New York or California, there may be hundreds of people or groups that can slow down projects. Examples: Local Zoning Board; Whomever controls permits for running utilities; State/local environmental boards (Lots and lots of $$$ permits); Land speculators ("building a factory in this industrial park will ruin the views from XXX piece of land that we own"); Historical preservation maniacs. ("That collapsing house was was rented by Richard Nixon's maid"); Local politicians ("Oh, you need to build a 200,000 square foot building? Our master plan was modified last week -- buildings are capped at 150,000 square feet.); Local politicians in neighboring municipalities. ("Your project will generate too much traffic"); Local real property tax boards.; State politicians; Local construction unions. (Who will sabotage your project if you don't play along.); State Labor Departments, acting as agents for the construction unions.; Environmental pressure groups. ("Your stormwater mitigation strategy is insufficient, you're getting sued"); Federal regulators. In New York, things are so bad that any significant project is essentially done under the aegis of the state government, usually via a public authority. The government provides funding, and can cut through some of the red tape, since the State is not subject to local zoning law. But there are usually strings attached, and the process takes years. In China or Brazil, you basically partner with a connected local, and build your factory in a few months.

yardie 15y ago
In China or Brazil, you basically partner with a connected local, and build your factory in a few months. I really think you are severely underestimating what actually goes into building a factory. It's not handshake and 3 months later something magically springs out of the ground. Most modern factories are into the billions of dollars. For example Foxconn is opening a new factory in Brazil that won't be ready before 2013 and will cost $12 billion. If you're just producing commodity items then you can buy commodity factory equipment. But high end manufacturing requires specialty equipment (usually from Germany, Japan or the US). Anyway, after farming, manufacturing is the largest consumer of freshwater. I think the people have a right to know how the water is being collected and how its being disposed of since it is state money being used for the treatment. Unless you preferred the bad old days, before the Clean water Act, where factories would regularly dump toxic waste into the river, the Mississippi and the East River used to regularly catch on fire, and New Jersey literally stunk from all the pollution in its estuaries.
drzaiusapelord 15y ago
>n states that are actively hostile to business, like New York or California If you think things are easier in Finland, then you're wrong. Turns out this is a specific case looking for a specific type of factory that could make a specific car on a specific contract. Your right-wing screed is not as convincing as you think it is. I'm not even going to point out how huge NY and Cali economies are. >n China or Brazil, you basically partner with a connected local, and build your factory in a few months. Replace "regulatory bullshit" with just as much bullshit except involving bribes, shakedowns, and forced contributions to political parties and dealing with a level of corruption and labor conditions that are staggeringly awful and depressing. My gf does work with BRIC economies all the time and the lesson I want to somehow teach you is that civilization and labor/environmental protections are worth it. They are waaaay worth it. I'm afraid people like you purposely refuse to learn this basic lesson and are otherwise spoiled by the Western privilege you refuse to share.
- Duff 15y ago
  You've declared me a right-wing nut and then stuff words in my mouth. Thanks. I'm not an expert in California, but I happen to live in Upstate NY and pay careful attention to what is (or isn't) going on. The size of the New York economy is an illusion in many ways; New York lives and dies on the back of a single industry -- Finance. That wasn't true 30-40 years ago. The valleys and lakefront between Buffalo and Albany were industrial powerhouses well into the 70s. In the early 20th century, Buffalo was one of the nations great cities, today, it's more like Detroit. I'd also suggest that you read about the major economic development project going on in New York right now, the construction of a multi-billion dollar chip fab for Global Foundries just outside of Saratoga Springs, NY. Total cost of that project is something like $7 billion, with just under $3 billion being provided by the State of New York under various guises. That's what it takes to do manufacturing in the US today -- even with high-end manufacturing which requires extremely skilled labor.

by Duff 15y ago

yardie 15y ago

In China or Brazil, you basically partner with a connected local, and build your factory in a few months. I really think you are severely underestimating what actually goes into building a factory. It's not handshake and 3 months later something magically springs out of the ground. Most modern factories are into the billions of dollars. For example Foxconn is opening a new factory in Brazil that won't be ready before 2013 and will cost $12 billion. If you're just producing commodity items then you can buy commodity factory equipment. But high end manufacturing requires specialty equipment (usually from Germany, Japan or the US). Anyway, after farming, manufacturing is the largest consumer of freshwater. I think the people have a right to know how the water is being collected and how its being disposed of since it is state money being used for the treatment. Unless you preferred the bad old days, before the Clean water Act, where factories would regularly dump toxic waste into the river, the Mississippi and the East River used to regularly catch on fire, and New Jersey literally stunk from all the pollution in its estuaries.

drzaiusapelord 15y ago

>n states that are actively hostile to business, like New York or California If you think things are easier in Finland, then you're wrong. Turns out this is a specific case looking for a specific type of factory that could make a specific car on a specific contract. Your right-wing screed is not as convincing as you think it is. I'm not even going to point out how huge NY and Cali economies are. >n China or Brazil, you basically partner with a connected local, and build your factory in a few months. Replace "regulatory bullshit" with just as much bullshit except involving bribes, shakedowns, and forced contributions to political parties and dealing with a level of corruption and labor conditions that are staggeringly awful and depressing. My gf does work with BRIC economies all the time and the lesson I want to somehow teach you is that civilization and labor/environmental protections are worth it. They are waaaay worth it. I'm afraid people like you purposely refuse to learn this basic lesson and are otherwise spoiled by the Western privilege you refuse to share.

Duff 15y ago
You've declared me a right-wing nut and then stuff words in my mouth. Thanks. I'm not an expert in California, but I happen to live in Upstate NY and pay careful attention to what is (or isn't) going on. The size of the New York economy is an illusion in many ways; New York lives and dies on the back of a single industry -- Finance. That wasn't true 30-40 years ago. The valleys and lakefront between Buffalo and Albany were industrial powerhouses well into the 70s. In the early 20th century, Buffalo was one of the nations great cities, today, it's more like Detroit. I'd also suggest that you read about the major economic development project going on in New York right now, the construction of a multi-billion dollar chip fab for Global Foundries just outside of Saratoga Springs, NY. Total cost of that project is something like $7 billion, with just under $3 billion being provided by the State of New York under various guises. That's what it takes to do manufacturing in the US today -- even with high-end manufacturing which requires extremely skilled labor.