4 ms·

I am going to address the elephant in the room. "[1.] Can a country train mediocre domestic performers to the productivity of the top 1% of other nations, whil

by screye 4y ago

I am going to address the elephant in the room. "[1.] Can a country train mediocre domestic performers to the productivity of the top 1% of other nations, while staying competitive?" OR "[1a.] Can America's 25th percentile out-compete the 1 percentile of other countries"? OR "[1b.] Nurture, but to what extent?" It is pointless to have numerous discussions go around in circles, while no one is willing to address the awkward musical chair that stays empty. If [1.] is true, then there is a strong case towards reducing immigration. If not, then immigration is the only way a country can maintain a developmental advantage. _______ I understand that this kind of question can quickly head towards Eugenics if the discussion isn't careful or in immense good faith. However, it must be glaringly obvious to every smart person that careful inquiry around question [1.] is central to actually figuring out a solution that moves past propaganda that ideological goals. While I am digging myself into a hole, I am going to state a few more such questions: [2.] If the pareto principle is true, then is there a hard capability threshold past which immigrants should be avoided ? [3.] If economic immigrants are a net drain, then what level of additional tax on immigrants makes them a positive addition to the system? [4.] Can someone please explain these graphs to me ? [g1][g2][g3][g4] . Isn't this a contradiction ? [5.] What percent of a representative human population can 'learn to code' at a professional level? _______ To be very clear, I do not equate capability or intelligence to IQ or any one-dimensional SAT-like test. I will leave it upto the reader to interpret 'general intelligence / capability / economic productivity/ human value' as they see fit. Also, this is a purely economic perspective towards immigration. I am keeping morals/need/ideology for another time. _______ [g1] https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/ft_2020.08.20_immigrants_01.png https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/ft_20... [g2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/199958/number-of-green-cards-in-the-united-states/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/199958/number-of-green-c... [g3] https://www.statista.com/statistics/200061/number-of-refugees-arriving-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/200061/number-of-refugee... [g4] https://www.migrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/source_charts/frs-2022-fig1.png https://www.migrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/source_c...

blululu 4y ago
1.) Probably not, but what is the prize here? San Francisco is a beautiful city, but people constantly complain about the fact that it is overrun by yuppie tech people who have zero connection with the place and who frequently express their disdain for the city. The city crushing it by any metric of global success, and yet it still has a ton of problems. It's not the best place to raise kids, it has a lot of social woes and it doesn't really provide much benefit for a lot of ordinary people who grew up there. Having the smartest people has a lot of benefits, but you also need to have some policy to make sure that these benefits actually trickle down. 1.a). Probably not, but again what is the prize here? Belgium's top 50% is pretty top notch, but with ~10M people, this is still just a drop in the Ocean. They can still have a plenty nice country though. 1.b.) Both, but it's nice to invest in your communities. A lot of people would mention that they learned a lot of what they know on the job and not in school. If you look at American high school math scores, the country is a joke. If you look at American engineers, it starts to become a serious contender (either the tests are missing something big or Americans are learning some interesting tricks along the way).
121789 4y ago
I'm not sure this is actually capturing the heart of the current arguments from current U.S. citizens, which IMO boil down to "how much control over the supply of labor in the U.S. do U.S. citizens have?" Even if your #1 is true, it doesn't mean that the economic benefits of immigration are distributed in a way that is favorable to the median worker.
whimsicalism 4y ago
> "[1a.] Can America's 25th percentile out-compete the 1 percentile of other countries"? OR It's more like can America's 1 percentile (PhDs) outcompete the 0.5%-ile of other countries and I think the answer is probably yes, which is why the west coast is so dominant in tech.

by screye 4y ago

blululu 4y ago

1.) Probably not, but what is the prize here? San Francisco is a beautiful city, but people constantly complain about the fact that it is overrun by yuppie tech people who have zero connection with the place and who frequently express their disdain for the city. The city crushing it by any metric of global success, and yet it still has a ton of problems. It's not the best place to raise kids, it has a lot of social woes and it doesn't really provide much benefit for a lot of ordinary people who grew up there. Having the smartest people has a lot of benefits, but you also need to have some policy to make sure that these benefits actually trickle down. 1.a). Probably not, but again what is the prize here? Belgium's top 50% is pretty top notch, but with ~10M people, this is still just a drop in the Ocean. They can still have a plenty nice country though. 1.b.) Both, but it's nice to invest in your communities. A lot of people would mention that they learned a lot of what they know on the job and not in school. If you look at American high school math scores, the country is a joke. If you look at American engineers, it starts to become a serious contender (either the tests are missing something big or Americans are learning some interesting tricks along the way).

121789 4y ago

I'm not sure this is actually capturing the heart of the current arguments from current U.S. citizens, which IMO boil down to "how much control over the supply of labor in the U.S. do U.S. citizens have?" Even if your #1 is true, it doesn't mean that the economic benefits of immigration are distributed in a way that is favorable to the median worker.

whimsicalism 4y ago

> "[1a.] Can America's 25th percentile out-compete the 1 percentile of other countries"? OR It's more like can America's 1 percentile (PhDs) outcompete the 0.5%-ile of other countries and I think the answer is probably yes, which is why the west coast is so dominant in tech.