4 ms·

Oh, it's plenty intelligent enough. Farming, construction, landscaping, etc all need undocumented labor over 'legal' labor, all around the country, but especia

Oh, it's plenty intelligent enough. Farming, construction, landscaping, etc all need undocumented labor over 'legal' labor, all around the country, but especially in farm country. Do you really believe that they honestly do not want migrant labor coming over the borders? No payroll taxes/benefits, and undocumented workers are much easier to exploit. They are highly unlikely to go to the cops about anything criminal that happens on the job, or to OSHA about any workplace safety violations, or to the district attorney about wage theft, and so on. They fear getting deported or tossed in jail. They're also socially isolated by various barriers - language, racial prejudice, and so on...so word of shady stuff going on is a lot less likely to make its way out. Don't want anyone to find out about your toxic waste dumping? Have your migrant workers do it. Also, migrant workers will do a lot of shit jobs that a lot of Americans just don't want to do, or at least not at fair market value labor rates that the business would be "sustainable" at. Meanwhile, politicians shout about how that migrant worker is stealing your job and so on. So they get the $$$ from the people who want exploitable labor, and the votes from the Pickup Truck Petes who think those "illegals" are "stealin' our jobs" and so on. It's not far off from why education is so poorly funded and constantly under various attacks in the US. There's a lot of wealthy people who want easily manipulated, uneducated, trapped-in-poverty workers to exploit. This is also why abortion is under constant attack; access to family planning is a huge factor to people escaping poverty.

jacobriis 4y ago
Farming doesn't actually depend on illegal migrants. The H2A visa program provided for 213,394 temporary workers for agriculture in 2020 (93% from Mexico).
- mschuster91 4y ago
  It absolutely does, about half the agricultural workforce of the US is considered "undocumented" [1]. [1] https://www.newsweek.com/nearly-half-us-farmworkers-undocumented-ending-illegal-immigration-could-devastate-economy-1585202 https://www.newsweek.com/nearly-half-us-farmworkers-undocume...
  - masonic 4y ago
    >about half the agricultural workforce of the US is considered "undocumented" That's not need, that's choice. They could pay higher wages and provide better working conditions. For the most part, right now that money is going toward automating everything possible, including fruit and vegetable picking, replacing those jobs altogether in the long term.
onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
> There's a lot of wealthy people who want easily manipulated, uneducated, trapped-in-poverty workers to exploit. I think it's a lot less wealthy people are evil and a lot more they just don't want to pay for these things. Very few people benefit from a poorly educated society. But the top 1% pay for 38.8% of Federal taxes. It's more about not wanting to pay $100k+ in taxes and less about being evil and wanting your countrymen to be dumb and poor so you can exploit them. Sure, some wealthy people are literally villains. Most of them aren't. Even the ones who vote for said policies. It's more greed than evil.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  "It's more greed than evil." Does this sounds like convincing or meaningfull distinction to anyone? Like you could say the same about drug lords and mafia bosses. Except the rair psyco, no-one does something evil just because they are evil. Like all crimes are comitted out of greed, or jealousy, etc. "But the top 1% pay for 38.8% of Federal taxes." But that's mathematically inevitable if they have >30% of all wealth - if they (hypothetically) would earn 100% of all the money, they would pay 100% of all the taxes.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
    > Like you could say the same about drug lords and mafia bosses. Drug lords and mafia bosses are literally overseeing murders on a regular basis. The business is inherently shady. I think there's a difference between not wanting to finance someone's welfare and breaking their kneecaps or killing them if they're late on a payment.
    - shadowgovt 4y ago
      It's the difference in pulling the lever vs. letting the trolley roll towards the victims while your hand is on the lever. The philosophical jury's out on whether it's a difference with meaning, but we seem to feel in our guts it is. Our guts are products of evolution, not reason.
ed 4y ago
> Farming, construction, landscaping, etc all need undocumented labor over 'legal' labor, all around the country, but especially in farm country. Do you really believe that they honestly do not want migrant labor coming over the borders? The US issued 200k+ seasonal visas last year for exactly this, it’s very legal. https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/h-2a-temporary-agricultural-workers https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary...
Animats 4y ago
We need a deal where illegal immigrants who turn in their employer get an L-1 visa for two years while their employer gets prosecuted.
- renewiltord 4y ago
  Who would be dumb enough to take this deal lmao. You’d have to be an astronomical moron. Yeah, I moved here in the hope of making it. Now I’m going to endanger myself and guarantee I’ll never make it. Hahaha. Only a top class idiot would do this.
  - shadowgovt 4y ago
    Instead of concluding millions of people are top class idiots, the evidence might suggest consideration of what circumstances would drive somebody to what an outsider would perceive as an incredibly idiotic move.
    - renewiltord 4y ago
      Millions of people are outing their employer for a 2 year L-1? I think not, sir.
- masonic 4y ago
  There are already U visas for crime victims: Qualifying Criminal Activities: Abduction Abusive Sexual Contact Blackmail Domestic Violence Extortion False Imprisonment Female Genital Mutilation Felonious Assault Fraud in Foreign Labor Contracting Hostage Incest Involuntary Servitude Kidnapping Manslaughter Murder Obstruction of Justice Peonage Perjury Prostitution Rape Sexual Assault Sexual Exploitation Slave Trade Stalking Torture Trafficking Witness Tampering Unlawful Criminal Restraint Other Related Crimes† Includes any similar activity where the elements of the crime are substantially similar. †Also includes attempt, conspiracy, or solicitation to commit any of the above and other related crimes.
nyokodo 4y ago
> why education is so poorly funded and constantly under various attacks in the US It’s not poorly funded. The US spends the second most in the world per kid, we just get so little out of each dollar.
- tfigment 4y ago
  The money is also not evenly distributed.
  - anamax 4y ago
    The money is not evenly distributed does not imply that the crappy schools are the ones with no money. Above a fairly low threshold, spending is largely independent of school success.

jacobriis 4y ago

Farming doesn't actually depend on illegal migrants. The H2A visa program provided for 213,394 temporary workers for agriculture in 2020 (93% from Mexico).

mschuster91 4y ago
It absolutely does, about half the agricultural workforce of the US is considered "undocumented" [1]. [1] https://www.newsweek.com/nearly-half-us-farmworkers-undocumented-ending-illegal-immigration-could-devastate-economy-1585202 https://www.newsweek.com/nearly-half-us-farmworkers-undocume...
- masonic 4y ago
  >about half the agricultural workforce of the US is considered "undocumented" That's not need, that's choice. They could pay higher wages and provide better working conditions. For the most part, right now that money is going toward automating everything possible, including fruit and vegetable picking, replacing those jobs altogether in the long term.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago

> There's a lot of wealthy people who want easily manipulated, uneducated, trapped-in-poverty workers to exploit. I think it's a lot less wealthy people are evil and a lot more they just don't want to pay for these things. Very few people benefit from a poorly educated society. But the top 1% pay for 38.8% of Federal taxes. It's more about not wanting to pay $100k+ in taxes and less about being evil and wanting your countrymen to be dumb and poor so you can exploit them. Sure, some wealthy people are literally villains. Most of them aren't. Even the ones who vote for said policies. It's more greed than evil.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
"It's more greed than evil." Does this sounds like convincing or meaningfull distinction to anyone? Like you could say the same about drug lords and mafia bosses. Except the rair psyco, no-one does something evil just because they are evil. Like all crimes are comitted out of greed, or jealousy, etc. "But the top 1% pay for 38.8% of Federal taxes." But that's mathematically inevitable if they have >30% of all wealth - if they (hypothetically) would earn 100% of all the money, they would pay 100% of all the taxes.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
  > Like you could say the same about drug lords and mafia bosses. Drug lords and mafia bosses are literally overseeing murders on a regular basis. The business is inherently shady. I think there's a difference between not wanting to finance someone's welfare and breaking their kneecaps or killing them if they're late on a payment.
  - shadowgovt 4y ago
    It's the difference in pulling the lever vs. letting the trolley roll towards the victims while your hand is on the lever. The philosophical jury's out on whether it's a difference with meaning, but we seem to feel in our guts it is. Our guts are products of evolution, not reason.

ed 4y ago

> Farming, construction, landscaping, etc all need undocumented labor over 'legal' labor, all around the country, but especially in farm country. Do you really believe that they honestly do not want migrant labor coming over the borders? The US issued 200k+ seasonal visas last year for exactly this, it’s very legal. https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/h-2a-temporary-agricultural-workers https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary...

Animats 4y ago

We need a deal where illegal immigrants who turn in their employer get an L-1 visa for two years while their employer gets prosecuted.

renewiltord 4y ago
Who would be dumb enough to take this deal lmao. You’d have to be an astronomical moron. Yeah, I moved here in the hope of making it. Now I’m going to endanger myself and guarantee I’ll never make it. Hahaha. Only a top class idiot would do this.
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  Instead of concluding millions of people are top class idiots, the evidence might suggest consideration of what circumstances would drive somebody to what an outsider would perceive as an incredibly idiotic move.
  - renewiltord 4y ago
    Millions of people are outing their employer for a 2 year L-1? I think not, sir.
masonic 4y ago
There are already U visas for crime victims: Qualifying Criminal Activities: Abduction Abusive Sexual Contact Blackmail Domestic Violence Extortion False Imprisonment Female Genital Mutilation Felonious Assault Fraud in Foreign Labor Contracting Hostage Incest Involuntary Servitude Kidnapping Manslaughter Murder Obstruction of Justice Peonage Perjury Prostitution Rape Sexual Assault Sexual Exploitation Slave Trade Stalking Torture Trafficking Witness Tampering Unlawful Criminal Restraint Other Related Crimes† Includes any similar activity where the elements of the crime are substantially similar. †Also includes attempt, conspiracy, or solicitation to commit any of the above and other related crimes.

nyokodo 4y ago

> why education is so poorly funded and constantly under various attacks in the US It’s not poorly funded. The US spends the second most in the world per kid, we just get so little out of each dollar.

tfigment 4y ago
The money is also not evenly distributed.
- anamax 4y ago
  The money is not evenly distributed does not imply that the crappy schools are the ones with no money. Above a fairly low threshold, spending is largely independent of school success.