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> I'm sure there exists an amount of force that can pry it from your living body though :) No there isn't, because you don't know how much I have. I can alway

> I'm sure there exists an amount of force that can pry it from your living body though :) No there isn't, because you don't know how much I have. I can always give up some and claim I gave up everything. To do what you claim you literally need to be omniscient. And if you are, then at that point you wouldn't be prying it from me. See my comment to someone else posting https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/.

ookdatnog 4y ago
To be clear, I am assuming we're talking about the security of the system as it relates to its users in general, not you specifically. I'm completely happy to yield that you are entirely unassailable. For the vast majority of people, it's not too hard to make an educated guess about their wealth based on their house, their car, the area they live, their lifestyle, their age, their job, etc. For most people, this information isn't hard to find. If you're torturing them to give you access to their crypto wallets, and they give up less than you expected, you just keep torturing. You may argue that people should be protective of this information, but they aren't and will probably never be. (As an aside, I don't actually believe torture is a viable large-scale threat to cryptocurrency. Pointlessness is though.)
- RedBeetDeadpool 4y ago
  Ok got it. So a gangmember will torture you because you have bitcoin just because you drive a lexus, even if you might not control a single satoshi. Which means gang members are suddenly going to torture anyone who lives in Beverly Hills because they must have a bitcoin. Assuming you are on tech worker salary, you should be buying guns to protect yourself from these gang members who are coming after the bitcoin they assert you have which they know you do because they said so. Also keep in mind, some of the poorest people are the ones that yolo invest in crypto and post instagrams of lambos they rent. Gang members are gonna have one heck of a time trying to get those people's bitcoin before realizing the upside down toothless crypto guru actually controls nothing and is actually deep in the red. Which is to say, public appearances are not indicative of true wealth. So here's the question, what metrics are you looking for as a torturer looking for torture acquired bitcoin? Lambos on instagram? Three story homes in beverly hills? Jpegs of a monkey on a twitter profile? The reason I say that trying to pry bitcoin out of someone that has it properly guarded is like walking around the earth tapping rocks hoping to find one that turns into gold is because it requires mind reading technology that hasn't been invented. Its a losing game that puts the assailant at legal risk for close to little chance of winning anything at all. Huge downside, practically zero upside. I'll admit to one thing though. We are going to see more and more and more of these torturers or scammers or crypto criminals and they are going to try harder and harder and harder. But again, properly defended means huge downsides and practically zero upside for them. But its not gonna stop them from trying, and its not gonna stop the hordes of scammers and torturers and crypto criminals from coming.
  - shlurpy 4y ago
    Many people rely on loan providers and most loan providers depend on proof of assets being provided and most organizations that store information are vulnerable to hacking. So that's at least one weakness that is at least one massive vector.
  - ben_w 4y ago
    > you should be buying guns to protect yourself from these gang members who are coming after the bitcoin they assert you have which they know you do because they said so. Pretty much. Or you could hire some people to do the security for you. Naturally they will want some money. But now you’re scaring all the people around you because the security answers to you alone, and you’re scared yourself because the people richer than you have more and better security, and people without enough to hire any security keep disappearing — some dead, some just leave because it’s unsafe — and so you all decide to hire them collectively and pay collectively and oh look you’ve invented taxation and a police force and now you don’t need a trustless payment system but you do need an accountant.

ookdatnog 4y ago

To be clear, I am assuming we're talking about the security of the system as it relates to its users in general, not you specifically. I'm completely happy to yield that you are entirely unassailable. For the vast majority of people, it's not too hard to make an educated guess about their wealth based on their house, their car, the area they live, their lifestyle, their age, their job, etc. For most people, this information isn't hard to find. If you're torturing them to give you access to their crypto wallets, and they give up less than you expected, you just keep torturing. You may argue that people should be protective of this information, but they aren't and will probably never be. (As an aside, I don't actually believe torture is a viable large-scale threat to cryptocurrency. Pointlessness is though.)

RedBeetDeadpool 4y ago
Ok got it. So a gangmember will torture you because you have bitcoin just because you drive a lexus, even if you might not control a single satoshi. Which means gang members are suddenly going to torture anyone who lives in Beverly Hills because they must have a bitcoin. Assuming you are on tech worker salary, you should be buying guns to protect yourself from these gang members who are coming after the bitcoin they assert you have which they know you do because they said so. Also keep in mind, some of the poorest people are the ones that yolo invest in crypto and post instagrams of lambos they rent. Gang members are gonna have one heck of a time trying to get those people's bitcoin before realizing the upside down toothless crypto guru actually controls nothing and is actually deep in the red. Which is to say, public appearances are not indicative of true wealth. So here's the question, what metrics are you looking for as a torturer looking for torture acquired bitcoin? Lambos on instagram? Three story homes in beverly hills? Jpegs of a monkey on a twitter profile? The reason I say that trying to pry bitcoin out of someone that has it properly guarded is like walking around the earth tapping rocks hoping to find one that turns into gold is because it requires mind reading technology that hasn't been invented. Its a losing game that puts the assailant at legal risk for close to little chance of winning anything at all. Huge downside, practically zero upside. I'll admit to one thing though. We are going to see more and more and more of these torturers or scammers or crypto criminals and they are going to try harder and harder and harder. But again, properly defended means huge downsides and practically zero upside for them. But its not gonna stop them from trying, and its not gonna stop the hordes of scammers and torturers and crypto criminals from coming.
- shlurpy 4y ago
  Many people rely on loan providers and most loan providers depend on proof of assets being provided and most organizations that store information are vulnerable to hacking. So that's at least one weakness that is at least one massive vector.
- ben_w 4y ago
  > you should be buying guns to protect yourself from these gang members who are coming after the bitcoin they assert you have which they know you do because they said so. Pretty much. Or you could hire some people to do the security for you. Naturally they will want some money. But now you’re scaring all the people around you because the security answers to you alone, and you’re scared yourself because the people richer than you have more and better security, and people without enough to hire any security keep disappearing — some dead, some just leave because it’s unsafe — and so you all decide to hire them collectively and pay collectively and oh look you’ve invented taxation and a police force and now you don’t need a trustless payment system but you do need an accountant.