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The entirety of evolution and social progress is a neck to neck rat race run against a red queen. Blaming mining (of any kind, gold, diamonds, rare earth metal

The entirety of evolution and social progress is a neck to neck rat race run against a red queen. Blaming mining (of any kind, gold, diamonds, rare earth metals, oil, bitcoin) for being a rat race is like blaming you for being a mammal that uses oxygen. Yes you are a mammal that uses vital oxygen. So are all the other animals out there.

cowtools 4y ago
Cryptocurrency mining isn't analogous to Gold mining in this way. The purpose of cryptocurrency mining isn't to produce cryptocurrency, but rather to secure cryptocurrency transactions by making the order of transactions hard to reverse by any attacker. Mining produces cryptocurrency merely if it is designed to reward those who secure the network. Mining specialization is against the purpose of cryptocurrency mining because it gives specialized attackers (a centralized group) power over the rest of the stakeholders (not just owners, but users).
- robocat 4y ago
  I think you are confusing the ideal incentives of the system as designed, versus the actual dynamic incentives that the system produces. Purpose is almost irrelevant. It is common to make analogous mistakes when considering biological evolution.
- ftlio 4y ago
  Except that Bitcoin miners have tried and failed to exercise any such power because it doesn’t exist. The most successful attack was creating a short-lived arbitrage opportunity between the massively pumped Bitcoin Cash and regular Bitcoin, which was able to slow down Bitcoin blocks as miners swapped chains until Bitcoin Cash backers either ran out of cash or dumped. All you had to do to not suffer from the attack was to just not do anything related to Bitcoin Cash. It was ultimately about extending the advantage of “ASIC Boost” miners by delaying a patch. The opportunity for miners to collude is completely offset by the fact that if they try to leverage their equipment somehow to delay or otherwise impact the main chain, you can just choose to mine instead to make better profits. Thus far there hasn’t been a single effective counter-play for miners that isn’t just “mine more Bitcoins and thus further secure the network” that isn’t just day trading with extra steps. Also who are these centralized miners anymore? Pools are centralized, but I’m a nobody who can mine profitably with very little capital involved. I can submit whatever block template I want. I haven’t been invited to any meetings.

cowtools 4y ago

Cryptocurrency mining isn't analogous to Gold mining in this way. The purpose of cryptocurrency mining isn't to produce cryptocurrency, but rather to secure cryptocurrency transactions by making the order of transactions hard to reverse by any attacker. Mining produces cryptocurrency merely if it is designed to reward those who secure the network. Mining specialization is against the purpose of cryptocurrency mining because it gives specialized attackers (a centralized group) power over the rest of the stakeholders (not just owners, but users).

robocat 4y ago
I think you are confusing the ideal incentives of the system as designed, versus the actual dynamic incentives that the system produces. Purpose is almost irrelevant. It is common to make analogous mistakes when considering biological evolution.
ftlio 4y ago
Except that Bitcoin miners have tried and failed to exercise any such power because it doesn’t exist. The most successful attack was creating a short-lived arbitrage opportunity between the massively pumped Bitcoin Cash and regular Bitcoin, which was able to slow down Bitcoin blocks as miners swapped chains until Bitcoin Cash backers either ran out of cash or dumped. All you had to do to not suffer from the attack was to just not do anything related to Bitcoin Cash. It was ultimately about extending the advantage of “ASIC Boost” miners by delaying a patch. The opportunity for miners to collude is completely offset by the fact that if they try to leverage their equipment somehow to delay or otherwise impact the main chain, you can just choose to mine instead to make better profits. Thus far there hasn’t been a single effective counter-play for miners that isn’t just “mine more Bitcoins and thus further secure the network” that isn’t just day trading with extra steps. Also who are these centralized miners anymore? Pools are centralized, but I’m a nobody who can mine profitably with very little capital involved. I can submit whatever block template I want. I haven’t been invited to any meetings.