4 ms·

So you're certain that the pharmaceutical industrial complex had nothing to do with suppressing existing, safe medications, by spreading propaganda that they we

by loceng 4y ago

So you're certain that the pharmaceutical industrial complex had nothing to do with suppressing existing, safe medications, by spreading propaganda that they weren't effective - and even dangerous - rather that you need to buy their newer, expensive treatment? Are you so sure Musk was spreading misinformation? Did you know that Pfizers new anti-viral drug targets the same pathway that Ivermectin apparently uses as well? I've seen that stated elsewhere - but also someone on HN not so long ago brought it up too, and provided citations to that research. Are you aware of how much money and what % of ad spend on mainstream-mass media channels is paid for by the pharmaceutical industry? Ads which are solely meant to manipulate people to believe something to then do certain behaviours they otherwise wouldn't have? Is it starting to feel like a conspiracy theory to you, even though the logic holds?

belltaco 4y ago
Musk doesn't know how to read and interpret medical studies. So he thought HCQ was a magic cure based on a quack Google doc and spread it. Ivermectin turned out to be somewhat helpful only if the covid patient had stomach worms which is rare in the US. Ad spending by pharma companies doesn't there are bad quality studies pushed by quacks who mislead people like Musk, Trump and Fox News hosts who have their own agendas. If any of those actually worked after 2 years of intense research the Chinese govt would be all over them instead of wrecking their economy and political capital with lockdowns. Musk has hundreds of billions, if those drugs actually worked he could have funded studies on them, but even he is smart enough to not continue to believe his own disproven bullshit that he feeds to conspiracy theorists.
- loceng 4y ago
  You bought into the propaganda hook, line, sunk - all of your responses are exactly shallow narratives the mainstream establishment trained the general population with. I'm not even going to bother linking to you to 5+ hours of testimony from various highly credentialed experts sharing their expertise as well as data, because you'll see a few of the names who have been demonized and had smear campaigns against them - and you'll then immediately and reactively dismiss the actual content of the video; there's also a 30-40 minute summary version of the video which is more easy to digest initially but I'd recommend watching the full version. If you'd actually like to watch what I'm talking about then ask and I'll link it.
  - belltaco 4y ago
    The studies and the data from all around the world don't lie. HCQ and Ivermectin don't work. The MRNA vaccines are highly safe and effective like Paxlovid. Five hours of ranting without any proof will not change anything. Meanwhile Musk is so clueless about viruses that he said coronavirus is a type of cold, ignoring SARS and the super deadly MERS which were both coronaviruses. As I said, lies and misinformation while not having the first clue about viruses.
    - kcplate 4y ago
      > The MRNA vaccines are highly safe and effective For some, but not necessarily for all. Everybody (in the US) who was going to get a Covid vaccine has got one, there is no need to continue the “safe and effective” talking point any more to try and convince the holdouts. https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2021/11/2/22757739/fda-moderna-vaccine-side-effects-in-kids https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2021/11/2/22757739/fda-m... https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/11/10/germany-france-restrict-modernas-covid-vaccine-for-under-30s-over-rare-heart-risk-despite-surging-cases/?sh=3d562e402a8a https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/11/10/germany-f... https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/finland-joins-nordic-nations-curbing-moderna-shots-80472959 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/finland-joins-nordic...
      - belltaco 4y ago
        It's definitely relevant in the context of '5 hours of video' of clout chasing "experts" trashing the vaccines as very dangerous.
        loceng 4y ago
        Isn't it funny though, how I could make the exact same baseless claim about you - that you're just clout chasing by engaging so adamantly and arrogantly on HN? It's such a vacant name calling argument tactic but it works on ideologues like yourself - and so why you also use it; it also goes to show that you don't actually weigh your arguments out, if these experts are lying simply for "clout chasing" then what behaviours will Pfizer (et al) partake in if they are profit chasing? Pfizer in 2021 made $37 billion just from the mRNA shots - but you think these "clout chasing" experts who are probably only making a very tiny fraction of what Pfizer is making (probably nowhere near how much the politicians make, who get money from these companies, for added conflict of interest that you should address too), these counter mainstream narrative experts putting their 20-40+ year careers on the line for clout is more likely the one participating in bad-unethical-illegal behaviour? You're aware of the pharmaceutical's previous unethical behaviours that they'e been fined to the tune of billions of dollars for - and arguably those fines aren't adequate, and because none of the executives end up in jail - there's no disincentive to try to stop them from continuing to try the same unethical behaviours? I'm truly curious: how do you balance these facts, or do you not understand or appreciate or believe that this human behaviour exists - even though Pfizer et al have already been found guilty of these behaviours in the past? Do you even weigh things out of what you believe with opposing information presented to you? I hope you also reply in depth to my long reply, we'll all truly see if you actually care about the truth then or not - if you're more likely doing it for clout: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31396978 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31396978

by loceng 4y ago

belltaco 4y ago

Musk doesn't know how to read and interpret medical studies. So he thought HCQ was a magic cure based on a quack Google doc and spread it. Ivermectin turned out to be somewhat helpful only if the covid patient had stomach worms which is rare in the US. Ad spending by pharma companies doesn't there are bad quality studies pushed by quacks who mislead people like Musk, Trump and Fox News hosts who have their own agendas. If any of those actually worked after 2 years of intense research the Chinese govt would be all over them instead of wrecking their economy and political capital with lockdowns. Musk has hundreds of billions, if those drugs actually worked he could have funded studies on them, but even he is smart enough to not continue to believe his own disproven bullshit that he feeds to conspiracy theorists.

loceng 4y ago
You bought into the propaganda hook, line, sunk - all of your responses are exactly shallow narratives the mainstream establishment trained the general population with. I'm not even going to bother linking to you to 5+ hours of testimony from various highly credentialed experts sharing their expertise as well as data, because you'll see a few of the names who have been demonized and had smear campaigns against them - and you'll then immediately and reactively dismiss the actual content of the video; there's also a 30-40 minute summary version of the video which is more easy to digest initially but I'd recommend watching the full version. If you'd actually like to watch what I'm talking about then ask and I'll link it.
- belltaco 4y ago
  The studies and the data from all around the world don't lie. HCQ and Ivermectin don't work. The MRNA vaccines are highly safe and effective like Paxlovid. Five hours of ranting without any proof will not change anything. Meanwhile Musk is so clueless about viruses that he said coronavirus is a type of cold, ignoring SARS and the super deadly MERS which were both coronaviruses. As I said, lies and misinformation while not having the first clue about viruses.
  - kcplate 4y ago
    > The MRNA vaccines are highly safe and effective For some, but not necessarily for all. Everybody (in the US) who was going to get a Covid vaccine has got one, there is no need to continue the “safe and effective” talking point any more to try and convince the holdouts. https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2021/11/2/22757739/fda-moderna-vaccine-side-effects-in-kids https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2021/11/2/22757739/fda-m... https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/11/10/germany-france-restrict-modernas-covid-vaccine-for-under-30s-over-rare-heart-risk-despite-surging-cases/?sh=3d562e402a8a https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/11/10/germany-f... https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/finland-joins-nordic-nations-curbing-moderna-shots-80472959 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/finland-joins-nordic...
    - belltaco 4y ago
      It's definitely relevant in the context of '5 hours of video' of clout chasing "experts" trashing the vaccines as very dangerous.
      - loceng 4y ago
        Isn't it funny though, how I could make the exact same baseless claim about you - that you're just clout chasing by engaging so adamantly and arrogantly on HN? It's such a vacant name calling argument tactic but it works on ideologues like yourself - and so why you also use it; it also goes to show that you don't actually weigh your arguments out, if these experts are lying simply for "clout chasing" then what behaviours will Pfizer (et al) partake in if they are profit chasing? Pfizer in 2021 made $37 billion just from the mRNA shots - but you think these "clout chasing" experts who are probably only making a very tiny fraction of what Pfizer is making (probably nowhere near how much the politicians make, who get money from these companies, for added conflict of interest that you should address too), these counter mainstream narrative experts putting their 20-40+ year careers on the line for clout is more likely the one participating in bad-unethical-illegal behaviour? You're aware of the pharmaceutical's previous unethical behaviours that they'e been fined to the tune of billions of dollars for - and arguably those fines aren't adequate, and because none of the executives end up in jail - there's no disincentive to try to stop them from continuing to try the same unethical behaviours? I'm truly curious: how do you balance these facts, or do you not understand or appreciate or believe that this human behaviour exists - even though Pfizer et al have already been found guilty of these behaviours in the past? Do you even weigh things out of what you believe with opposing information presented to you? I hope you also reply in depth to my long reply, we'll all truly see if you actually care about the truth then or not - if you're more likely doing it for clout: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31396978 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31396978