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"Writing systems were independently invented no fewer than three times (Mesopotamian, Chinese, and Mayan are unquestionably independent inventions)" … "Note t

"Writing systems were independently invented no fewer than three times (Mesopotamian, Chinese, and Mayan are unquestionably independent inventions)" … "Note that being able to represent any phonetic utterance of a language is the distinguishing characteristic between proto-writing and writing." Huh... does Chinese meet that criteria? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logogram#Differences_in_processing_of_logographic_and_phonologic_writing_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logogram#Differences_in_proces...

capitainenemo 4y ago
Hm. " Chinese, they are fused with logographic elements used phonetically; such "radical and phonetic" characters make up the bulk of the script. Both languages relegated the active use of rebus to the spelling of foreign and dialectical words. " I guess that counts.
ncmncm 4y ago
The Chinese writing system is a syllabary, but with a large number of symbols that map to ~1200 spoken syllables, and memorized spelling rules for which to use, often with "just-so" stories about logograms as memory aids. Strangely, many, perhaps most users of it think it is not a syllabary. This is largely because it is what they were told as children, and it makes little difference in use, within bounds of Mandarin. People who speak other Chinese languages, which Mandarin speakers are taught to think of as dialects (i.e. basically the same as Mandarin but for variant pronunciation), know better. It is common among Mandarin speakers to believe they can read texts in these other "dialects", not realizing that what they read has been translated to Mandarin. (Writing "in dialect" is done very rarely, except for transcribed loan words, because it is not taught; the elaborate spelling rules for Mandarin would not work, as is.) The CCP encourages this misapprehension.
- YeGoblynQueenne 4y ago
  Source please? I'd like to read more about this.
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    I picked it up mostly from Language Log, the U of Penn collective, and Victor Mair's postings there. No doubt he has a book.

capitainenemo 4y ago

Hm. " Chinese, they are fused with logographic elements used phonetically; such "radical and phonetic" characters make up the bulk of the script. Both languages relegated the active use of rebus to the spelling of foreign and dialectical words. " I guess that counts.

ncmncm 4y ago

The Chinese writing system is a syllabary, but with a large number of symbols that map to ~1200 spoken syllables, and memorized spelling rules for which to use, often with "just-so" stories about logograms as memory aids. Strangely, many, perhaps most users of it think it is not a syllabary. This is largely because it is what they were told as children, and it makes little difference in use, within bounds of Mandarin. People who speak other Chinese languages, which Mandarin speakers are taught to think of as dialects (i.e. basically the same as Mandarin but for variant pronunciation), know better. It is common among Mandarin speakers to believe they can read texts in these other "dialects", not realizing that what they read has been translated to Mandarin. (Writing "in dialect" is done very rarely, except for transcribed loan words, because it is not taught; the elaborate spelling rules for Mandarin would not work, as is.) The CCP encourages this misapprehension.

YeGoblynQueenne 4y ago
Source please? I'd like to read more about this.
- ncmncm 4y ago
  I picked it up mostly from Language Log, the U of Penn collective, and Victor Mair's postings there. No doubt he has a book.