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At the same time are basically putting your trust in one company (apple) in this case to not do scummy things. But as pointed out this can be a way of helping

At the same time are basically putting your trust in one company (apple) in this case to not do scummy things. But as pointed out this can be a way of helping themselves hold and expand various market positions.. which may or may not be scummy too. And who knows where they’ll be what they’ll change in a few years when the need to increase profits. Im not supper trusting of any of these big companies. I don’t love regulations but we seem to be headed to some weird monopolistic place.

s3p 4y ago
Not buying this. There is now a default option for end-users to protect their privacy in ways they previously could not. Users who don't know the ins and outs of VPNs, people who aren't as well versed with technology as us. THAT is who this benefits the most. They went from having nothing to now potentially something. I also don't buy the whole "well your data might not be shared with X anymore but you're trusting Apple with it". What's the point? Anyone who uses literally any other major operating system is going to deal with the same thing. And the alternative? Android? Unless you want to switch to an indie fork of Android then the telemetry is much worse.
jen20 4y ago
They build the operating system and the firmware, and design the CPUs. Maybe possibly protecting against some hypothetical future problem vs a real problem that exists today is not a good trade off.
lolinder 4y ago
If you're using an iPhone, you already are trusting Apple to not do scummy things. If they wanted to, they could snoop all your traffic with or without Private Relay. What Private Relay does appear to do is guarantee that no one besides Apple can do scummy things. That's a definite improvement.
- olliej 4y ago
  Private Relay prevents everyone, including Apple, from snooping your traffic - assuming it behaves as they document it. Given the protocol appears to be designed expressly to shield traffic from spying by Apple and their partners, it seems reasonable to assume that they're being honest.
  - lolinder 4y ago
    Agreed, I was just saying that even if you mistrust Apple completely it's still a net gain.
fnordpiglet 4y ago
Apple at least documents and gets a third party to audit and attest to the effectiveness of their controls. It’s not perfect - I’m not convinced zero trust exists - but it’s a lot better than the alternative which is nakedly disclosing unlimited use of private information for commercial purposes.
- philistine 4y ago
  As long as you allow a vendor to deliver software updates, zero trust is impossible to achieve.

s3p 4y ago

Not buying this. There is now a default option for end-users to protect their privacy in ways they previously could not. Users who don't know the ins and outs of VPNs, people who aren't as well versed with technology as us. THAT is who this benefits the most. They went from having nothing to now potentially something. I also don't buy the whole "well your data might not be shared with X anymore but you're trusting Apple with it". What's the point? Anyone who uses literally any other major operating system is going to deal with the same thing. And the alternative? Android? Unless you want to switch to an indie fork of Android then the telemetry is much worse.

jen20 4y ago

They build the operating system and the firmware, and design the CPUs. Maybe possibly protecting against some hypothetical future problem vs a real problem that exists today is not a good trade off.

lolinder 4y ago

If you're using an iPhone, you already are trusting Apple to not do scummy things. If they wanted to, they could snoop all your traffic with or without Private Relay. What Private Relay does appear to do is guarantee that no one besides Apple can do scummy things. That's a definite improvement.

olliej 4y ago
Private Relay prevents everyone, including Apple, from snooping your traffic - assuming it behaves as they document it. Given the protocol appears to be designed expressly to shield traffic from spying by Apple and their partners, it seems reasonable to assume that they're being honest.
- lolinder 4y ago
  Agreed, I was just saying that even if you mistrust Apple completely it's still a net gain.

fnordpiglet 4y ago

Apple at least documents and gets a third party to audit and attest to the effectiveness of their controls. It’s not perfect - I’m not convinced zero trust exists - but it’s a lot better than the alternative which is nakedly disclosing unlimited use of private information for commercial purposes.

philistine 4y ago
As long as you allow a vendor to deliver software updates, zero trust is impossible to achieve.