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I feel that my mental health has improved after going back to (voluntarily) office. It was no good being stuck with myself at home all the time. That said, I've

I feel that my mental health has improved after going back to (voluntarily) office. It was no good being stuck with myself at home all the time. That said, I've worked out of some toxic offices and I don't miss that.

smt88 4y ago
Smart employers will allow people to come into an office only if they want to. It doesn't have to be a binary. They don't need to lose people like you just because other employees want to be remote.
- vmception 4y ago
  Smart employees will reject going into the office to just video chat with everyone Any other solution?
  - rubicon33 4y ago
    Meetings with part in office, part remote, are so cumbersome and awkward compared to all in office or all remote. The cadences between the two conversations are totally off, making it odd to try and sync up and have natural organic discussions.
    - beezlebroxxxxxx 4y ago
      In my experience, I've found that to be the case when the meetings are already effectively pointless and not well organized. One solution is to make meetings more structured and important. This has the benefit of also making them rarer. When I've been in meetings that have clear goals and an agenda/talking points to go through so that people stay on topic, I found them to be far more bearable with mixed remote and office employees.
    - sgt101 4y ago
      The problem is that even if everyone is in the office, they are often in different offices. I currently work at a company with people resourced into projects from two other countries (soon 4), with a plethora of customers on other sites in my country. We have three offices in this country as well, and the head office is in a different country again. Almost every decision (which requires a meeting) requires someone from this diaspora. So we are on video no matter what.
    - corobo 4y ago
      If I had a quid for every “you’re all muted now, I can’t hear anything you’re saying”
      - sideshowb 4y ago
        The average hn person presumably does get at least a quid for all the connection faff every meeting
        corobo 4y ago
        Hah. Fair point.
    - alaricus 4y ago
      Man, we used to waste so much time running from one conference room to the other. Not having to do that saves a lot of time for natural organic conversations.
  - im3w1l 4y ago
    Smart employers will embrace Conways law, and make sure that the in-office guys mostly collaborate with each other, and give the out-of-office people projects that are self-contained and well specified.
  - Moto7451 4y ago
    I actually am someone who would go into the office part time but I would still want to maintain the ability to have 100% remote work. I am bothered a lot by people at home. I’ve been remote pre-pandemic so the affliction of people thinking your being at home means you can run their errands is not new. The pandemic made it worse because now I am bothered all day every work day. You’d think, “stop bothering the person paying the mortgage” would be a motivator but it’s simply not the case for me. I know many people in this position so it is worthwhile to have empathy for people who really need an office. And of course to reiterate, that doesn’t mean that a return to office should be mandatory.
    - b3morales 4y ago
      Your complaint about errands is kind of oblique and I find it confusing -- are you speaking of housemates, or your family, or who?
      - paulryanrogers 4y ago
        I've seen the errands and expectations problem from family. Clear boundaries can be difficult to maintain if one makes too many exceptions. Young kids especially can struggle to understand why a parent is visible on the way to the bathroom or for water but otherwise forbids interruption. It takes diligence, patience, soundproofing, and sometimes locks and a detached shed / workshop.
    - notadev 4y ago
      I have the same issue and am really struggling to resolve it. I’m the sole income and have young kids. I’m constantly interrupted by the kids who want to come see me. I try not to turn them away because the advantage of WFH, or so I believe, is that we don’t miss all the things our kids do while we’re slaving away at an office. However, this requires me to push things to later in the day. Then there are appointments and things that my wife usually has covered, but with another adult in the house “can you take the baby for a couple minutes”. I tried explaining the concept of context switching but so think I just come off like an uncaring jerk. I’m looking for a 1-2 time a week space away from my home office because I can’t keep looking at these same four walls day in and day out. I used to be so much more productive in the office, but felt like a terrible father. I’m really trying to come up with a way to have my cake and eat it too.
  - fartcannon 4y ago
    Don't do video chats? They're pretty worthless.
- temp8964 4y ago
  If employers allow some work from home and some work in office, after a few years, there will be lots of reports to claim the statistical differences of wage and promotion between those two groups are discriminations. And demand those two groups to have the same outcomes.
  - x3n0ph3n3 4y ago
    The can demand all they want, but such discrimination is not illegal.
    - temp8964 4y ago
      Caving to the demands from a small group is not uncommon. Also, they can always link the difference to race/gender etc. Say, if there are more women or racial minorities chose to work from home, and then working from home leads to less wage increases, then the company will be in trouble.
  - smt88 4y ago
    It's not about allowing or not allowing. You let everyone work remotely if they want to, and then you pay for a small office for the people who choose it. Remote should be the assumed default.
    - temp8964 4y ago
      This semantic difference does not seem to be relevant to my point. If say you choose to work from home and then you find out your coworkers working in office get more wage increase or promotion than you do, would you be OK with it?
      - Spivak 4y ago
        Why would anyone be okay with that? If you flip it around do you expect it to suddenly be okay?
        4y ago
- kkfx 4y ago
  Smart employers? Let's do a bit of math: - if you are NOT full remote but also NOT full in office you need to pay both an infra for remote workers and offices; - or you give double gears of you made some workers really unhappy moving their gears back&forth (remember you can easily move laptops BUT normally you do not move docking for them with external monitor and keyboard and mice for working in comfort; - since potentially ALL workers can came back you can't save money for a smaller office neither... Are such hybrid employers smart? Oh, on the other side it's the same: - why coming back to the office, so live nearby the office instead in more affordable and nicer places if you WFH more or less frequently and potentially you can WFH 100%? - why having a home with a workspace if you work from the office more or less frequently? Hybrid is HORRIBLE and should be there only for a very limited transitory period of time to let anyone change habits, definitively not something smart.
  - smt88 4y ago
    I never said anything about hybrid. I said that employees who want an office should be offered one.
    - kkfx 4y ago
      That's essentially hybrid, it might not sound for the individual workers who choose home or office, but for the company point-of-view that's hybrid works and for all workers means being able to work in both configs...
  - efrecon 4y ago
    Smart employers, I think, will share workspaces. I can't remember the last time I really needed a piece of paper (I carry a remarkable for that) and as long as I can dock easily, with a decent screen and keyboard/mouse combo, I am kind of happy as long as it doesn't take ages to setup.
    - kkfx 4y ago
      So you do not care at all about infosec, like keyloggers and co planted in shared places by who know who? Or for the employer the joy of sharing some loans to find some others do not pay and he have to pay on their behalf than loose time in Court hoping there is something to recover?
- datashaman 4y ago
  We reopened our offices. Some people went in on the first day. Five people caught COVID. Offices are closed again (temporarily).
  - birdyrooster 4y ago
    Same here.
cdubzzz 4y ago
It’s interesting how all this plays out at the individual level. My employer is reopening as a “hybrid” workplace this week but teams also have the freedom to choose their own approach (including staying remote) for now. Some people are thrilled to get back in, others (like me!) are remaining remote with some mild hand wringing about how long we’ll be allowed to do so. As a parent of young children (who can’t get vaccinated yet) the pandemic has been quite trying for us but the switch to remote has been insanely good for my mental and physical health. I have filled the two hours a day I used to spend commuting with things like running, biking, strength training, reading, more time with my kids, etc. and this has led to improved fitness and diet, more energy, better sleep, _and_ increased output at work. At this point I just can’t even imagine going back to having a commute.
- inglor_cz 4y ago
  On a normal day, I spend about two and a half hours commuting, but two thirds of that time are actually a brisk walk to/from the railway station(s) and the rest is a train ride which I spend reading. I would have walked and read regardless. But this is an untypical constellation of factors, yes.

smt88 4y ago

Smart employers will allow people to come into an office only if they want to. It doesn't have to be a binary. They don't need to lose people like you just because other employees want to be remote.

vmception 4y ago
Smart employees will reject going into the office to just video chat with everyone Any other solution?
- rubicon33 4y ago
  Meetings with part in office, part remote, are so cumbersome and awkward compared to all in office or all remote. The cadences between the two conversations are totally off, making it odd to try and sync up and have natural organic discussions.
  - beezlebroxxxxxx 4y ago
    In my experience, I've found that to be the case when the meetings are already effectively pointless and not well organized. One solution is to make meetings more structured and important. This has the benefit of also making them rarer. When I've been in meetings that have clear goals and an agenda/talking points to go through so that people stay on topic, I found them to be far more bearable with mixed remote and office employees.
  - sgt101 4y ago
    The problem is that even if everyone is in the office, they are often in different offices. I currently work at a company with people resourced into projects from two other countries (soon 4), with a plethora of customers on other sites in my country. We have three offices in this country as well, and the head office is in a different country again. Almost every decision (which requires a meeting) requires someone from this diaspora. So we are on video no matter what.
  - corobo 4y ago
    If I had a quid for every “you’re all muted now, I can’t hear anything you’re saying”
    - sideshowb 4y ago
      The average hn person presumably does get at least a quid for all the connection faff every meeting
      - corobo 4y ago
        Hah. Fair point.
  - alaricus 4y ago
    Man, we used to waste so much time running from one conference room to the other. Not having to do that saves a lot of time for natural organic conversations.
- im3w1l 4y ago
  Smart employers will embrace Conways law, and make sure that the in-office guys mostly collaborate with each other, and give the out-of-office people projects that are self-contained and well specified.
- Moto7451 4y ago
  I actually am someone who would go into the office part time but I would still want to maintain the ability to have 100% remote work. I am bothered a lot by people at home. I’ve been remote pre-pandemic so the affliction of people thinking your being at home means you can run their errands is not new. The pandemic made it worse because now I am bothered all day every work day. You’d think, “stop bothering the person paying the mortgage” would be a motivator but it’s simply not the case for me. I know many people in this position so it is worthwhile to have empathy for people who really need an office. And of course to reiterate, that doesn’t mean that a return to office should be mandatory.
  - b3morales 4y ago
    Your complaint about errands is kind of oblique and I find it confusing -- are you speaking of housemates, or your family, or who?
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      I've seen the errands and expectations problem from family. Clear boundaries can be difficult to maintain if one makes too many exceptions. Young kids especially can struggle to understand why a parent is visible on the way to the bathroom or for water but otherwise forbids interruption. It takes diligence, patience, soundproofing, and sometimes locks and a detached shed / workshop.
  - notadev 4y ago
    I have the same issue and am really struggling to resolve it. I’m the sole income and have young kids. I’m constantly interrupted by the kids who want to come see me. I try not to turn them away because the advantage of WFH, or so I believe, is that we don’t miss all the things our kids do while we’re slaving away at an office. However, this requires me to push things to later in the day. Then there are appointments and things that my wife usually has covered, but with another adult in the house “can you take the baby for a couple minutes”. I tried explaining the concept of context switching but so think I just come off like an uncaring jerk. I’m looking for a 1-2 time a week space away from my home office because I can’t keep looking at these same four walls day in and day out. I used to be so much more productive in the office, but felt like a terrible father. I’m really trying to come up with a way to have my cake and eat it too.
- fartcannon 4y ago
  Don't do video chats? They're pretty worthless.
temp8964 4y ago
If employers allow some work from home and some work in office, after a few years, there will be lots of reports to claim the statistical differences of wage and promotion between those two groups are discriminations. And demand those two groups to have the same outcomes.
- x3n0ph3n3 4y ago
  The can demand all they want, but such discrimination is not illegal.
  - temp8964 4y ago
    Caving to the demands from a small group is not uncommon. Also, they can always link the difference to race/gender etc. Say, if there are more women or racial minorities chose to work from home, and then working from home leads to less wage increases, then the company will be in trouble.
- smt88 4y ago
  It's not about allowing or not allowing. You let everyone work remotely if they want to, and then you pay for a small office for the people who choose it. Remote should be the assumed default.
  - temp8964 4y ago
    This semantic difference does not seem to be relevant to my point. If say you choose to work from home and then you find out your coworkers working in office get more wage increase or promotion than you do, would you be OK with it?
    - Spivak 4y ago
      Why would anyone be okay with that? If you flip it around do you expect it to suddenly be okay?
      - 4y ago
kkfx 4y ago
Smart employers? Let's do a bit of math: - if you are NOT full remote but also NOT full in office you need to pay both an infra for remote workers and offices; - or you give double gears of you made some workers really unhappy moving their gears back&forth (remember you can easily move laptops BUT normally you do not move docking for them with external monitor and keyboard and mice for working in comfort; - since potentially ALL workers can came back you can't save money for a smaller office neither... Are such hybrid employers smart? Oh, on the other side it's the same: - why coming back to the office, so live nearby the office instead in more affordable and nicer places if you WFH more or less frequently and potentially you can WFH 100%? - why having a home with a workspace if you work from the office more or less frequently? Hybrid is HORRIBLE and should be there only for a very limited transitory period of time to let anyone change habits, definitively not something smart.
- smt88 4y ago
  I never said anything about hybrid. I said that employees who want an office should be offered one.
  - kkfx 4y ago
    That's essentially hybrid, it might not sound for the individual workers who choose home or office, but for the company point-of-view that's hybrid works and for all workers means being able to work in both configs...
- efrecon 4y ago
  Smart employers, I think, will share workspaces. I can't remember the last time I really needed a piece of paper (I carry a remarkable for that) and as long as I can dock easily, with a decent screen and keyboard/mouse combo, I am kind of happy as long as it doesn't take ages to setup.
  - kkfx 4y ago
    So you do not care at all about infosec, like keyloggers and co planted in shared places by who know who? Or for the employer the joy of sharing some loans to find some others do not pay and he have to pay on their behalf than loose time in Court hoping there is something to recover?
datashaman 4y ago
We reopened our offices. Some people went in on the first day. Five people caught COVID. Offices are closed again (temporarily).
- birdyrooster 4y ago
  Same here.

cdubzzz 4y ago

It’s interesting how all this plays out at the individual level. My employer is reopening as a “hybrid” workplace this week but teams also have the freedom to choose their own approach (including staying remote) for now. Some people are thrilled to get back in, others (like me!) are remaining remote with some mild hand wringing about how long we’ll be allowed to do so. As a parent of young children (who can’t get vaccinated yet) the pandemic has been quite trying for us but the switch to remote has been insanely good for my mental and physical health. I have filled the two hours a day I used to spend commuting with things like running, biking, strength training, reading, more time with my kids, etc. and this has led to improved fitness and diet, more energy, better sleep, _and_ increased output at work. At this point I just can’t even imagine going back to having a commute.

inglor_cz 4y ago
On a normal day, I spend about two and a half hours commuting, but two thirds of that time are actually a brisk walk to/from the railway station(s) and the rest is a train ride which I spend reading. I would have walked and read regardless. But this is an untypical constellation of factors, yes.