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I spent basically the entire article trying to figure out what the "groundbreaking" research actually was... this is a pretty mangled press release rendering of

I spent basically the entire article trying to figure out what the "groundbreaking" research actually was... this is a pretty mangled press release rendering of the scientific research, even worse than the kinds you normally see from university research. To its credit, this doesn't promise that we can (or will shortly be able to) actually read Linear A texts, and it actually explicates that we won't be able to do that. But that's pretty much the limit of credit due to this article. Linear A's connection to Linear B has been hypothesized since... well, at least as far back as when I was taught it in school, which considering how long it takes textbooks to update themselves to state-of-the-art archaeology may as well be time immemorial. What it looks like the actual "groundbreaking" research here is, based on the sleuthing done in the previous version of the article that leads to an academic review of the work in question (here: https://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2021/2021.04.30/ https://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2021/2021.04.30/). The layman's version is that it's a detailed analysis of the structural elements of the script to propose how the (unknown) language was encoded into Linear A, combined with some analysis of how individual glyphs varied in time and space--and this results in the conclusion that Linear B is actually a version of a regional [script, not linguistic] dialect of Linear A that was used to write a different language.

Torkel 5y ago
Yeah, not a good article at all - I bailed half way through and went to the comments here in hope of a tldr/abstract…
- ncmncm 5y ago
  What it specifically fails to deliver is any indication of how "the internet" had any role at all in the work or in any progress made. The only suggestion of progress was that somebody finally noticed the LB symbols were mostly about the same as LA symbols, so they now can now pronounce the LA texts. There is no hint why that only just happened.
pianoraptor 5y ago
Thank you for your take on it. I too was hoping for more insights here, having followed the Linear A / Linear B developments from my armchair for many years.
lsrinivas 5y ago
I too was scratching my head about as you put it , "what the groundbreaking research was". The academic review link that you posted was rather useful though it was a little technical. I think the book needs to be read. But thanks a ton.
tremon 5y ago
this results in the conclusion that Linear B is actually a version of a regional [script, not linguistic] dialect of Linear A that was used to write a different language. I'm having trouble understanding this. To me this says that Linear A and Linear B are different scripts that express different [spoken] languages, but might share common heritage. Which sounds obvious to me, not groundbreaking, unless they've now identified the common source. Or are you saying that Linear A and Linear B might be the same script (as in phoneme->symbol encoding), but used to express a different language?
- jamesfinlayson 5y ago
  > Or are you saying that Linear A and Linear B might be the same script (as in phoneme->symbol encoding), but used to express a different language? That was my understanding but I didn't think that was a new hypothesis - I remember reading years ago that they were a very similar alphabet (for lack of a better word) and that linear B was just the locals using their alphabet to write ancient Greek. I believe something similar was done in Germany a few hundred years ago - the Bible was written in Hebrew script that encoded German words.
- contingencies 5y ago
  IMHO grandparent is saying Linear B is a different, yet related script that appears to be directly derived from a regional variant of Linear A. A script can be used to write arbitrary languages, and does not imply a fully identical mapping to phonemes when used for these different languages. Examples include use of the Arabic script[0] to write Uighur, Urdu, or Farsi. Generally an existing script is adopted for a new language through transliteration, often the addition of diacritics or new glyphs. Further examples would be Vietnamese or the numerous abugidas of Southeast Asia. When an existing script is used without adaptation by a speaker of another language attempting phonetic transliteration, it is generally very lossy.[2] This is why we have IPA, which is also lossy and not widely understood.[3] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_script https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_script [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abugida https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abugida [2] https://www.sinosplice.com/life/archives/2013/07/02/the-foreign-feel-of-a-chinese-transliteration https://www.sinosplice.com/life/archives/2013/07/02/the-fore... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabe...
qiskit 5y ago
> and this results in the conclusion that Linear B is actually a version of a regional [script, not linguistic] dialect of Linear A that was used to write a different language. I guess that's nice to know, but hasn't it always been known that linear A and B were "related". Regardless, Linear A still hasn't been deciphered and that's what's ultimately important.
kurupt213 5y ago
I was expecting a proposed language, like a dialect of luwian or something. This article is old news

Torkel 5y ago

Yeah, not a good article at all - I bailed half way through and went to the comments here in hope of a tldr/abstract…

ncmncm 5y ago
What it specifically fails to deliver is any indication of how "the internet" had any role at all in the work or in any progress made. The only suggestion of progress was that somebody finally noticed the LB symbols were mostly about the same as LA symbols, so they now can now pronounce the LA texts. There is no hint why that only just happened.

pianoraptor 5y ago

Thank you for your take on it. I too was hoping for more insights here, having followed the Linear A / Linear B developments from my armchair for many years.

lsrinivas 5y ago

I too was scratching my head about as you put it , "what the groundbreaking research was". The academic review link that you posted was rather useful though it was a little technical. I think the book needs to be read. But thanks a ton.

tremon 5y ago

this results in the conclusion that Linear B is actually a version of a regional [script, not linguistic] dialect of Linear A that was used to write a different language. I'm having trouble understanding this. To me this says that Linear A and Linear B are different scripts that express different [spoken] languages, but might share common heritage. Which sounds obvious to me, not groundbreaking, unless they've now identified the common source. Or are you saying that Linear A and Linear B might be the same script (as in phoneme->symbol encoding), but used to express a different language?

jamesfinlayson 5y ago
> Or are you saying that Linear A and Linear B might be the same script (as in phoneme->symbol encoding), but used to express a different language? That was my understanding but I didn't think that was a new hypothesis - I remember reading years ago that they were a very similar alphabet (for lack of a better word) and that linear B was just the locals using their alphabet to write ancient Greek. I believe something similar was done in Germany a few hundred years ago - the Bible was written in Hebrew script that encoded German words.
contingencies 5y ago
IMHO grandparent is saying Linear B is a different, yet related script that appears to be directly derived from a regional variant of Linear A. A script can be used to write arbitrary languages, and does not imply a fully identical mapping to phonemes when used for these different languages. Examples include use of the Arabic script[0] to write Uighur, Urdu, or Farsi. Generally an existing script is adopted for a new language through transliteration, often the addition of diacritics or new glyphs. Further examples would be Vietnamese or the numerous abugidas of Southeast Asia. When an existing script is used without adaptation by a speaker of another language attempting phonetic transliteration, it is generally very lossy.[2] This is why we have IPA, which is also lossy and not widely understood.[3] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_script https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_script [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abugida https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abugida [2] https://www.sinosplice.com/life/archives/2013/07/02/the-foreign-feel-of-a-chinese-transliteration https://www.sinosplice.com/life/archives/2013/07/02/the-fore... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabe...

qiskit 5y ago

> and this results in the conclusion that Linear B is actually a version of a regional [script, not linguistic] dialect of Linear A that was used to write a different language. I guess that's nice to know, but hasn't it always been known that linear A and B were "related". Regardless, Linear A still hasn't been deciphered and that's what's ultimately important.

kurupt213 5y ago

I was expecting a proposed language, like a dialect of luwian or something. This article is old news