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They cannot see the data because they have chosen not to see it. That is different than being unable to see it. As the creator of the software, Apple could di

They cannot see the data because they have chosen not to see it. That is different than being unable to see it. As the creator of the software, Apple could disable to circumvent its own system to bypass these protections, perhaps in response to a legal obligation. A proper implementation, something like Tor, would be a designed to blind all network participants, including the evil ones.

scoopertrooper 5y ago
That may be the case, but it misses the point. If Apple is not presently doing this, then they are not abusing their market position in gain an unfair advantage.
Spooky23 5y ago
Then the tor exit node people could read the traffic. Do what I do, i encode all emails into giant QR codes on paper that will fade in 72 hours. I then have a staffer chain a briefcase with the email to his or her wrist and fly to the recipient in a private jet. The one time pads are delivered by a separate courier.
- kortilla 5y ago
  If you think the tor exit node looking at the traffic is equivalent, you missed the point of tor.
  - Spooky23 5y ago
    We’re talking about a company like Apple building a global infrastructure. Any such scenario would result in the company or their providers controlling a lot of the infrastructure. That’s why private relay isn’t a bad thing. You’re replacing thousands of individual risks with one. IMO, the protection of Apple’s PR is stronger than any tech.
dwaite 5y ago
> As the creator of the software, Apple could disable to circumvent its own system to bypass these protections How is that new though? As the creator of Safari they could store tracking information locally and batch upload it for processing.
monocularvision 5y ago
Apple makes the device and OS. They will always have the ability to see the data.
fauigerzigerk 5y ago
>They cannot see the data because they have chosen not to see it. That is different than being unable to see it It's different in terms of security, but in terms of competition, which is what network providers complained about, there is no difference at all.
tshaddox 5y ago
This is a pointless argument though, since Apple can deliver arbitrary over the air updates to iPhones anyway. There is nothing that iPhone hardware is physically capable of doing that Apple could not release a software update to do. Thus any evil you can conceive of is trivially within the slippery slope.

scoopertrooper 5y ago

That may be the case, but it misses the point. If Apple is not presently doing this, then they are not abusing their market position in gain an unfair advantage.

Spooky23 5y ago

Then the tor exit node people could read the traffic. Do what I do, i encode all emails into giant QR codes on paper that will fade in 72 hours. I then have a staffer chain a briefcase with the email to his or her wrist and fly to the recipient in a private jet. The one time pads are delivered by a separate courier.

kortilla 5y ago
If you think the tor exit node looking at the traffic is equivalent, you missed the point of tor.
- Spooky23 5y ago
  We’re talking about a company like Apple building a global infrastructure. Any such scenario would result in the company or their providers controlling a lot of the infrastructure. That’s why private relay isn’t a bad thing. You’re replacing thousands of individual risks with one. IMO, the protection of Apple’s PR is stronger than any tech.

dwaite 5y ago

> As the creator of the software, Apple could disable to circumvent its own system to bypass these protections How is that new though? As the creator of Safari they could store tracking information locally and batch upload it for processing.

monocularvision 5y ago

Apple makes the device and OS. They will always have the ability to see the data.

fauigerzigerk 5y ago

>They cannot see the data because they have chosen not to see it. That is different than being unable to see it It's different in terms of security, but in terms of competition, which is what network providers complained about, there is no difference at all.

tshaddox 5y ago

This is a pointless argument though, since Apple can deliver arbitrary over the air updates to iPhones anyway. There is nothing that iPhone hardware is physically capable of doing that Apple could not release a software update to do. Thus any evil you can conceive of is trivially within the slippery slope.