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Quebec experiences pretty significant societal isolation: https://i.redd.it/wczkvtt99z431.png https://i.redd.it/wczkvtt99z431.png Worse yet, when they go to Fr

Quebec experiences pretty significant societal isolation: https://i.redd.it/wczkvtt99z431.png https://i.redd.it/wczkvtt99z431.png Worse yet, when they go to France... the French will refuse to talk to them in french and default to English with them. Whereas Belgium or Switzerland doesn't really have this problem. Quebec feels they are literally on their own, they effective are. Their language barrier problems significantly isolates them. Historically this has been destructive to their economy. Pierre Trudeau tried to fix this but in the end really resulted in the rest of Canada paying Quebec huge money to stay in Canada. Idiotic at best and has been producing anti-quebec sentiment for some time. I believe we are somewhere around -60% dislike toward Quebec from the rest of canada. This produces significant nationalist/separatism sentiment. Their federal and provincial representatives right now are literal separatists. Which doesn't make sense at all. The problem, Quebec basically can't leave Canada. Quebec has a budget deficit of about 6.5$ billion and a -$27 billion tax balance. So if they leave Canada they will immediately have about 25% deficit that will mean they have to shutdown multiple social nets. Healthcare and education being shutdown would likely make separatism quite unpopular. They would also have to adjust for negative sentiment and drop in trade. As Canada becomes far wealthier, they would become quite poor due to their isolation. Meanwhile Quebec seems to have taken to a new technique for their separatism. They don't plan to leave Canada anymore. They are making it virtually impossible for the rest of the provinces to stay. Ideally the smartest thing to do would be Ontario provincial government to require french fluency with all students by graduation. End their isolation by having french in Ontario. I don't see that ever happening. It's inevitable Quebec leaves or gets kicked out.

mdtusz 4y ago
Language is only one of the issues. The Quebecois see themselves as fundamentally different and _not Canadian_ - they don't celebrate Canada Day for instance (at least not in a significant capacity). Even if the RoC made French a mandatory part of their education systems, Quebec would remain "different" and generally bitter towards the rest of the country (and vice versa). It has an entirely different culture from the rest of the country and will always have a chip on its shoulder unless French language (specifically _Quebecois French) and culture spread throughout the rest of the country, which will obviously never happen. While it's a difficult problem to solve, I don't think that the forced language laws are the right approach - they just create more discontentment and resentment. Ideally, they would apply these rulings to the province as they see fit, but leave Montreal as an independent district of sorts which operates more similarly to the rest of Canada. This has been proposed many times, but unfortunately never happened.
4oo4 4y ago
> "Worse yet, when they go to France... the French will refuse to talk to them in french and default to English with them." That's fascinating, so they pick up that it's Québécois French and then decide to do that? Is there something in particular that makes them look down on people from Quebec or Québécois French? I lived in France for a while, and didn't experience very many people wanting to speak English with me since my French was pretty good, though I have a very thick anglophone accent (I'm American, but they always assumed I was British for some reason). Usually my experience has been that most French people don't want to speak anything other than French unless they are purposefully wanting to practice their English with someone (and not speaking any French and trying to beg people to communicate with you in English is a great way to make people instantly annoyed with you). The fact they would do the opposite with people that speak a slightly different variant of French is really surprising. I don't know anything about the Canadian constitution, but I would find it surprising if this passed judicial review, forcing doctors to communicate with patients in a language they don't know is asking for terrible medical outcomes. Potentially having a dead patient because they couldn't effectively communicate with them (like a drug allergy for example) to preserve cultural purity does not seem "reasonable" nor "can be justified in a free and democratic society", according to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. However, with how much other democratic norms and rights are backsliding all over the place it also wouldn't be surprising if this was upheld somehow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_expression_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_expression_in_Canad...
- HDMI_Cable 4y ago
  > I don't know anything about the Canadian constitution, but I would find it surprising if this passed judicial review, The thing with the Canadian Constitution (specifically the Charter) is that this behaviour is specifically allowed. There is a provision in the Charter, called the Notwithstanding Clause, that allows provinces to "temporarily" go against some Charter rights. The clause was added specifically to placate the provinces, who wouldn't have accepted it otherwise [1]. --- [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_33_of_the_Canadian_Charter_of_Rights_and_Freedoms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_33_of_the_Canadian_Cha...
  - 4y ago

mdtusz 4y ago

Language is only one of the issues. The Quebecois see themselves as fundamentally different and _not Canadian_ - they don't celebrate Canada Day for instance (at least not in a significant capacity). Even if the RoC made French a mandatory part of their education systems, Quebec would remain "different" and generally bitter towards the rest of the country (and vice versa). It has an entirely different culture from the rest of the country and will always have a chip on its shoulder unless French language (specifically _Quebecois French) and culture spread throughout the rest of the country, which will obviously never happen. While it's a difficult problem to solve, I don't think that the forced language laws are the right approach - they just create more discontentment and resentment. Ideally, they would apply these rulings to the province as they see fit, but leave Montreal as an independent district of sorts which operates more similarly to the rest of Canada. This has been proposed many times, but unfortunately never happened.

4oo4 4y ago

> "Worse yet, when they go to France... the French will refuse to talk to them in french and default to English with them." That's fascinating, so they pick up that it's Québécois French and then decide to do that? Is there something in particular that makes them look down on people from Quebec or Québécois French? I lived in France for a while, and didn't experience very many people wanting to speak English with me since my French was pretty good, though I have a very thick anglophone accent (I'm American, but they always assumed I was British for some reason). Usually my experience has been that most French people don't want to speak anything other than French unless they are purposefully wanting to practice their English with someone (and not speaking any French and trying to beg people to communicate with you in English is a great way to make people instantly annoyed with you). The fact they would do the opposite with people that speak a slightly different variant of French is really surprising. I don't know anything about the Canadian constitution, but I would find it surprising if this passed judicial review, forcing doctors to communicate with patients in a language they don't know is asking for terrible medical outcomes. Potentially having a dead patient because they couldn't effectively communicate with them (like a drug allergy for example) to preserve cultural purity does not seem "reasonable" nor "can be justified in a free and democratic society", according to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. However, with how much other democratic norms and rights are backsliding all over the place it also wouldn't be surprising if this was upheld somehow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_expression_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_expression_in_Canad...

HDMI_Cable 4y ago
> I don't know anything about the Canadian constitution, but I would find it surprising if this passed judicial review, The thing with the Canadian Constitution (specifically the Charter) is that this behaviour is specifically allowed. There is a provision in the Charter, called the Notwithstanding Clause, that allows provinces to "temporarily" go against some Charter rights. The clause was added specifically to placate the provinces, who wouldn't have accepted it otherwise [1]. --- [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_33_of_the_Canadian_Charter_of_Rights_and_Freedoms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_33_of_the_Canadian_Cha...
- 4y ago