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> Are you saying it’s being exaggerated and people are lying? Not at all. What I'm saying is that those issues are due to a general discrimination of women in

by imiric 5y ago

> Are you saying it’s being exaggerated and people are lying? Not at all. What I'm saying is that those issues are due to a general discrimination of women in the workplace, which, yes, we should work towards fixing. They are the same issues we hear about in other industries as well. But not that the gender disparity is necessarily due to that, nor that we should try to "represent" women in gaming more to fix it. As I'm sure you're aware, there are many strong women leaders in game development (Roberta Williams, Amy Hennig, more here[1]), most of whom we probably haven't heard of, indie developers, etc. And there's a healthy representation of women in game streaming with a very large following. Video games is an art form that can be enjoyed or created by anyone, regardless of gender or any other distinction. Nearly half of gamers are now women, and they seem to be enjoying the broad range of content that exists, whether or not it's specifically targeted at them. It's never been easier to start creating games as an indie developer, which is a good thing given how toxic the game dev industry is as a whole, for all creative people. [1]: https://www.gameindustrycareerguide.com/influential-women-game-developers/ https://www.gameindustrycareerguide.com/influential-women-ga...

dahart 4y ago
> not that we should try to “represent” women in gaming more to fix it. Maybe you’re making some assumptions about what “represent” actually means? What actions are you imagining people take when people say they’d like to see more female representation, as in this thread? In my mind there’s no difference between saying I’d like to see more female representation, and work towards fixing discrimintaion in the workplace. More representation is synonymous with fixing the discrimination problems to allow more women to the table. In games this means not just more women engineers, but more women designers & modelers & environment artists & management. My personal experience in the games industry is that women were underrepresented in all departments except HR, though some departments (art) were higher than others (eng). > As I’m sure you’re aware, there are many strong women leaders in game development The only way I can read this statement in this context is as a suggestion that because some women survived ongoing discrimination, there isn’t that much of a problem, as literally downplaying the problem. While it’s some sort of progress that we have more than zero female representation in game dev, game streaming, and game players, that’s not a great reason to pat ourselves on the back. The industry needs to first move out of the toxic zone, and it hasn’t even done that yet. > Video games is an art form that can be enjoyed or created by anyone This, again, is a hypothetical that ignores reality. You can say the same hypothetical about almost any profession on earth. Airplanes can by flown by anyone. Politics can be done by anyone. It’s never been easier to start with any of them. And yet there are persistent stubborn disparities despite women having equal amounts of interest and ability as men in these fields. If by ‘anyone’, you’re referring to being a solo indie developer on a mobile platform, the stats for people having a career there don’t exactly support your argument. And by “don’t exactly” I mean not at all. The majority of people who do game dev full time today work in a company, go through standard educational paths to meet requirements, and are subject to the company of other people and their, let’s say, foibles.

by imiric 5y ago

dahart 4y ago

> not that we should try to “represent” women in gaming more to fix it. Maybe you’re making some assumptions about what “represent” actually means? What actions are you imagining people take when people say they’d like to see more female representation, as in this thread? In my mind there’s no difference between saying I’d like to see more female representation, and work towards fixing discrimintaion in the workplace. More representation is synonymous with fixing the discrimination problems to allow more women to the table. In games this means not just more women engineers, but more women designers & modelers & environment artists & management. My personal experience in the games industry is that women were underrepresented in all departments except HR, though some departments (art) were higher than others (eng). > As I’m sure you’re aware, there are many strong women leaders in game development The only way I can read this statement in this context is as a suggestion that because some women survived ongoing discrimination, there isn’t that much of a problem, as literally downplaying the problem. While it’s some sort of progress that we have more than zero female representation in game dev, game streaming, and game players, that’s not a great reason to pat ourselves on the back. The industry needs to first move out of the toxic zone, and it hasn’t even done that yet. > Video games is an art form that can be enjoyed or created by anyone This, again, is a hypothetical that ignores reality. You can say the same hypothetical about almost any profession on earth. Airplanes can by flown by anyone. Politics can be done by anyone. It’s never been easier to start with any of them. And yet there are persistent stubborn disparities despite women having equal amounts of interest and ability as men in these fields. If by ‘anyone’, you’re referring to being a solo indie developer on a mobile platform, the stats for people having a career there don’t exactly support your argument. And by “don’t exactly” I mean not at all. The majority of people who do game dev full time today work in a company, go through standard educational paths to meet requirements, and are subject to the company of other people and their, let’s say, foibles.