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My bigger worry about cryogenics is about the people on the "other side" of the freeze. Why do they want to wake you up? They won't look at the tag on the fro

My bigger worry about cryogenics is about the people on the "other side" of the freeze. Why do they want to wake you up? They won't look at the tag on the frozen toe and read "ALS" and figure they want to wake you up to administer the cure (which will cost US$3.5 million in 2020 dollars). They won't be that curious about life in the early 21st century. What they'll want is slave labor, mental or physical.

peterburkimsher 4y ago
Really? I thought it's just worth waking people up to hear their memories, and teach others. Archaeology is fun! What happens if we apply electricity to their heart with a defibrillator, and nasal high-flow gentle heating to thaw out their flesh? Will they wake up? No idea. Whenever someone wants to try, they will.
- shakna 4y ago
  Getting archeological funding is an absolute bitch of a thing. Yes, there are a number of people who want to learn and explore the world with altruistic goals, but they rarely manage to convince the people standing above them that it's a good idea. (Not that every facet of the gatekeeping is bad, mind. Denying access to sites to preserve them, for example.)
  - peterburkimsher 4y ago
    What preserves better? Keeping something in the ground? Putting it in a museum? Translating it? Backing it up on a computer, in the cloud? Sharing more!
    - shakna 4y ago
      Its situational. We've got some sites sealed, because the mere act of opening them will destroy them. We don't have the technology to safely examine them - yet. So we keep them under lock and key for future generations to solve that problem. Sometimes you do have to make a hard choice. Taking it out of the ground might partially destroy it, but leaving it where it lies might also destroy it. (Particularly sites close to mining sites.) But generally speaking - putting anything on display in a museum will wreck it. Most archeological works on display are duplicates, whilst the preservation and maintenance work is done as far away from ordinary people as possible. One part pays for the other. The people involved in this stuff absolutely want to share that knowledge! They want people to grow and learn. To experience new ideas and endless wonder. But they're also extremely pragmatic.
      - peterburkimsher 4y ago
        Thank you for teaching us your knowledge! It's not intellectual property theft now you're sharing it. Please, pragmatically, make photo or 3D model or something so that it's backed up on a website somewhere. Just in case an accident happens again, like at the Library of Alexandria in 48 BC, or the National Museum of Brazil in 2018 AD. And if I can help, I'd love to try with you.
      - pyinstallwoes 4y ago
        You seem to know about this subject. 1) what types of potential excavations are currently sealed and what is the hypothesis of the contents? 2) what is the most shocking thing you know that others don’t know that you’d be willing to share, or at least surprising. 3) why are there gatekeepers on knowledge and archaeology?
        shakna 4y ago
        > 1) what types of potential excavations are currently sealed and what is the hypothesis of the contents? The most famous for is probably the main tomb for the First Qin Emperor. That is to say, the main tomb for the place with the terracotta army. The army figures almost immediately started to flake and decay after being exposed - lacquer disappearing in a space of minutes. We believe there may be some mercury rivers or pools inside the main tomb that may rapidly be lost if we were to open it, as well as the other artifacts. > 2) what is the most shocking thing you know that others don’t know that you’d be willing to share, or at least surprising. Nothing much. I doubt anything would surprise anyone. Maybe that people have always been people? Some people have the mistaken impression ancient people were mentally slow. I've only really dipped a toe into this field, with some translation work (and that was a little while ago, now). I've translated a lot of equivalents to "Y sleeps around" and "I've got a nice dick, call me" anywhere from a few thousand years right up to the invention of writing. Graffiti from three and four thousand years ago is about the same as you get on toilet stalls, today. > 3) why are there gatekeepers on knowledge and archaeology? In my experience, there isn't really. Not on what we know. There is a _lot_ of stuff that never makes it to media, or front of house at a museum, because its... Boring. Not a lot of people interested in Boris' accounting ledger for seeds and growth on the farm. Especially not when we have thousands from similar farms from the same era. Not unique, not interesting, not widely publicised. (But recorded diligently, all the same. Often in public records.) There are gatekeepers on gaining more knowledge. Some of that is just bureaucratic nonsense. Some of it is that we've got limited resources and so need to triage where to supply them. And some of it is to stop over-eager morons from accidentally destroying knowledge that we don't have the skill or tools to safely extract, just yet. There are sometimes a few things that have actual gatekeeping on exploring them, because they're political firecrackers. Like the potential site of Biblical artifacts in Moslem nations, for example. Or anything in China that goes against the current Party message. But those things are very few and far between.
    - ta988 4y ago
      In my work experience putting things in a computer is the thing that preserve the least. We still have papers from the 70s all the computer stored data from the 90s is long gone. Storing physical artifacts is pretty passive compared to storing digital artifacts that require regular medium and formats change.
- nwatson 4y ago
  Waking up the cryo-preserved in future won't revive an unbiased and informed cross-section of the current populace.

peterburkimsher 4y ago

Really? I thought it's just worth waking people up to hear their memories, and teach others. Archaeology is fun! What happens if we apply electricity to their heart with a defibrillator, and nasal high-flow gentle heating to thaw out their flesh? Will they wake up? No idea. Whenever someone wants to try, they will.

shakna 4y ago
Getting archeological funding is an absolute bitch of a thing. Yes, there are a number of people who want to learn and explore the world with altruistic goals, but they rarely manage to convince the people standing above them that it's a good idea. (Not that every facet of the gatekeeping is bad, mind. Denying access to sites to preserve them, for example.)
- peterburkimsher 4y ago
  What preserves better? Keeping something in the ground? Putting it in a museum? Translating it? Backing it up on a computer, in the cloud? Sharing more!
  - shakna 4y ago
    Its situational. We've got some sites sealed, because the mere act of opening them will destroy them. We don't have the technology to safely examine them - yet. So we keep them under lock and key for future generations to solve that problem. Sometimes you do have to make a hard choice. Taking it out of the ground might partially destroy it, but leaving it where it lies might also destroy it. (Particularly sites close to mining sites.) But generally speaking - putting anything on display in a museum will wreck it. Most archeological works on display are duplicates, whilst the preservation and maintenance work is done as far away from ordinary people as possible. One part pays for the other. The people involved in this stuff absolutely want to share that knowledge! They want people to grow and learn. To experience new ideas and endless wonder. But they're also extremely pragmatic.
    - peterburkimsher 4y ago
      Thank you for teaching us your knowledge! It's not intellectual property theft now you're sharing it. Please, pragmatically, make photo or 3D model or something so that it's backed up on a website somewhere. Just in case an accident happens again, like at the Library of Alexandria in 48 BC, or the National Museum of Brazil in 2018 AD. And if I can help, I'd love to try with you.
    - pyinstallwoes 4y ago
      You seem to know about this subject. 1) what types of potential excavations are currently sealed and what is the hypothesis of the contents? 2) what is the most shocking thing you know that others don’t know that you’d be willing to share, or at least surprising. 3) why are there gatekeepers on knowledge and archaeology?
      - shakna 4y ago
        > 1) what types of potential excavations are currently sealed and what is the hypothesis of the contents? The most famous for is probably the main tomb for the First Qin Emperor. That is to say, the main tomb for the place with the terracotta army. The army figures almost immediately started to flake and decay after being exposed - lacquer disappearing in a space of minutes. We believe there may be some mercury rivers or pools inside the main tomb that may rapidly be lost if we were to open it, as well as the other artifacts. > 2) what is the most shocking thing you know that others don’t know that you’d be willing to share, or at least surprising. Nothing much. I doubt anything would surprise anyone. Maybe that people have always been people? Some people have the mistaken impression ancient people were mentally slow. I've only really dipped a toe into this field, with some translation work (and that was a little while ago, now). I've translated a lot of equivalents to "Y sleeps around" and "I've got a nice dick, call me" anywhere from a few thousand years right up to the invention of writing. Graffiti from three and four thousand years ago is about the same as you get on toilet stalls, today. > 3) why are there gatekeepers on knowledge and archaeology? In my experience, there isn't really. Not on what we know. There is a _lot_ of stuff that never makes it to media, or front of house at a museum, because its... Boring. Not a lot of people interested in Boris' accounting ledger for seeds and growth on the farm. Especially not when we have thousands from similar farms from the same era. Not unique, not interesting, not widely publicised. (But recorded diligently, all the same. Often in public records.) There are gatekeepers on gaining more knowledge. Some of that is just bureaucratic nonsense. Some of it is that we've got limited resources and so need to triage where to supply them. And some of it is to stop over-eager morons from accidentally destroying knowledge that we don't have the skill or tools to safely extract, just yet. There are sometimes a few things that have actual gatekeeping on exploring them, because they're political firecrackers. Like the potential site of Biblical artifacts in Moslem nations, for example. Or anything in China that goes against the current Party message. But those things are very few and far between.
  - ta988 4y ago
    In my work experience putting things in a computer is the thing that preserve the least. We still have papers from the 70s all the computer stored data from the 90s is long gone. Storing physical artifacts is pretty passive compared to storing digital artifacts that require regular medium and formats change.
nwatson 4y ago
Waking up the cryo-preserved in future won't revive an unbiased and informed cross-section of the current populace.