4 ms·

The Wikipedia article on shaped charges is fascinating: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaped_charge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaped_charge The penetratio

The Wikipedia article on shaped charges is fascinating: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaped_charge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaped_charge The penetration distance is proportional to the diameter of the charge (counterintuitive; you'd expect the height), and can be up to 7x as large. So a ~5 inch charge shown in the film can penetrate up to about 3 feet of solid steel. Also, all of our known defenses against shaped charged rely on the assumption that the same spot won't get hit twice. Composite armor breaks and deflects the geometry of the jet through its deformation; reactive armor relies on a mini-explosion to defeat the jet. This has interesting implications in a world of drones and precision-guided munitions, and in fact the Javelin missiles we've been shipping to Ukraine have double warheads, the first to destroy the armor and the second to destroy the vehicle.

infofarmer 4y ago
There are many more types of active defenses other than reactive armor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_protection_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_protection_system
- bglazer 4y ago
  I recently learned that active protection systems have really significant electronic signatures. I’m no expert but I believe that they rely on vehicle mounted radar systems to detect incoming fire. Take a look at this graphic: https://sites.breakingmedia.com/uploads/sites/3/2021/07/image2.png https://sites.breakingmedia.com/uploads/sites/3/2021/07/imag... The source for this is an advertisement for a Rheinmetal brand APS. So treat it like you would any marketing material. Nonetheless, if it’s even remotely accurate, I would not want to be part of a tank crew that is visible to surveillance aircraft multiple countries away. I get the impression these APS systems were designed with low intensity “anti-terror” operations in mind. They’ll do a decent job killing an RPG fired from across the street but they light you up like a Christmas tree. Not a problem if you’re battling ISIS but a significant liability against opponents with modern surveillance capability. Also they’re useless against top attack munitions which seem to be remarkably effective in Ukraine.
tootie 4y ago
Great video on the engineering of the Javelin and why it's so simple and effective: https://youtu.be/SUdHzKRiBX8 https://youtu.be/SUdHzKRiBX8 The Javelin has multiple tricks up its sleeve to defeat sophisticated armor and Russian armor is just behind the curve. It's a literal arms race to add more layers of defense and more layers of attack and right now, NATO is far ahead.
- mauvehaus 4y ago
  You know, a theme of From the Earth to the Moon by Jules Verne is the longstanding rivalry between weapon makers and armor makers. 150 years after it was written, that bit still seems to hold true.
- nyolfen 4y ago
  this is compounded by the fact that much of the armor on the ground in ukraine does not actually seem to feature the advanced defenses developed during the soviet era, like ERA. i've seen several photos of what appears to be decoy ERA on destroyed t-72's, which was nothing more than a hollow brick of steel. i suspect graft or a weak economy is the reason.
  - MertsA 4y ago
    Forget decoys, some of the videos coming out of Ukraine were showing plenty of Russian tanks with the bags for the reactive armor sagging down clearly only holding the spacers and no ERA plates. It's like the troops believed the cover story that they were only going near the border for a training exercise.
  - avereveard 4y ago
    the source of these pictures are all from ukraine. it's not far fetched to think they removed era and planted inert spacer to demoralize the enemy. in general, while the fog of war is in full effect, I wouldn't trust any one-sided intel.
    - sofixa 4y ago
      How would fake lack of ERA demoralise the enemy when the enemy is getting destroyed anyhow, even if they have ERA? (And in your scenario, if it did have ERA)
Terry_Roll 4y ago
Alot of things were developed during WW2 like an Earthquake bomb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake_bomb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake_bomb and in the 50's the first of these were developed, a Tsunami bomb https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/newzealand/9774217/Tsunami-bomb-tested-off-New-Zealand-coast.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepa... A scaled down model of the Möhne dam where the bouncing bomb was used can be found at the BRE site in Watford on your way to the lunch canteen. https://bregroup.com/ipark/parks/england/visit/ https://bregroup.com/ipark/parks/england/visit/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouncing_bomb#Re-creating_the_bouncing_bomb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouncing_bomb#Re-creating_the_...
User23 4y ago
Training with shaped charges made my father grateful he ended up in the infantry. They are clever, but seriously nasty.

infofarmer 4y ago

There are many more types of active defenses other than reactive armor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_protection_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_protection_system

bglazer 4y ago
I recently learned that active protection systems have really significant electronic signatures. I’m no expert but I believe that they rely on vehicle mounted radar systems to detect incoming fire. Take a look at this graphic: https://sites.breakingmedia.com/uploads/sites/3/2021/07/image2.png https://sites.breakingmedia.com/uploads/sites/3/2021/07/imag... The source for this is an advertisement for a Rheinmetal brand APS. So treat it like you would any marketing material. Nonetheless, if it’s even remotely accurate, I would not want to be part of a tank crew that is visible to surveillance aircraft multiple countries away. I get the impression these APS systems were designed with low intensity “anti-terror” operations in mind. They’ll do a decent job killing an RPG fired from across the street but they light you up like a Christmas tree. Not a problem if you’re battling ISIS but a significant liability against opponents with modern surveillance capability. Also they’re useless against top attack munitions which seem to be remarkably effective in Ukraine.

tootie 4y ago

Great video on the engineering of the Javelin and why it's so simple and effective: https://youtu.be/SUdHzKRiBX8 https://youtu.be/SUdHzKRiBX8 The Javelin has multiple tricks up its sleeve to defeat sophisticated armor and Russian armor is just behind the curve. It's a literal arms race to add more layers of defense and more layers of attack and right now, NATO is far ahead.

mauvehaus 4y ago
You know, a theme of From the Earth to the Moon by Jules Verne is the longstanding rivalry between weapon makers and armor makers. 150 years after it was written, that bit still seems to hold true.
nyolfen 4y ago
this is compounded by the fact that much of the armor on the ground in ukraine does not actually seem to feature the advanced defenses developed during the soviet era, like ERA. i've seen several photos of what appears to be decoy ERA on destroyed t-72's, which was nothing more than a hollow brick of steel. i suspect graft or a weak economy is the reason.
- MertsA 4y ago
  Forget decoys, some of the videos coming out of Ukraine were showing plenty of Russian tanks with the bags for the reactive armor sagging down clearly only holding the spacers and no ERA plates. It's like the troops believed the cover story that they were only going near the border for a training exercise.
- avereveard 4y ago
  the source of these pictures are all from ukraine. it's not far fetched to think they removed era and planted inert spacer to demoralize the enemy. in general, while the fog of war is in full effect, I wouldn't trust any one-sided intel.
  - sofixa 4y ago
    How would fake lack of ERA demoralise the enemy when the enemy is getting destroyed anyhow, even if they have ERA? (And in your scenario, if it did have ERA)

Terry_Roll 4y ago

Alot of things were developed during WW2 like an Earthquake bomb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake_bomb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake_bomb and in the 50's the first of these were developed, a Tsunami bomb https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/newzealand/9774217/Tsunami-bomb-tested-off-New-Zealand-coast.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepa... A scaled down model of the Möhne dam where the bouncing bomb was used can be found at the BRE site in Watford on your way to the lunch canteen. https://bregroup.com/ipark/parks/england/visit/ https://bregroup.com/ipark/parks/england/visit/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouncing_bomb#Re-creating_the_bouncing_bomb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouncing_bomb#Re-creating_the_...

User23 4y ago

Training with shaped charges made my father grateful he ended up in the infantry. They are clever, but seriously nasty.