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It's hard to say without more details however the bit about applying to 1000 jobs definitely raised my eyebrows. How do you apply to jobs? If you're simply goi

It's hard to say without more details however the bit about applying to 1000 jobs definitely raised my eyebrows. How do you apply to jobs? If you're simply going on indeed or LinkedIn and clicking easy apply I can see why you might not get many responses. For reference I think I've only applied to maybe 20 jobs in my life and got at least a first interview for 18 of them. That said my process for applying to a job takes at least a few hours if not days, because I research the company, try and understand why they're hiring, try and find people who work their to talk to, then I tailor my resume to the position and apply by asking someone to pass it along to the relevant person. I don't have A CS degree, a deep network or any notable opensource projects so I'm fairly confident this approach would work for anyone.

brailsafe 4y ago
It seems like this strategy is basically not viable anymore unless you do already have a lot of luck in the industry. I'm much more close to the OP, and the application cycle has become absurdly detached from what you describe. Maybe it works for some companies, idk, but genuinely even applying to jobs automatically puts you in a timed coding competition from Step 1 most of the time. Getting to speak to someone on the team is an almost laughable pipe dream, and putting in any work ahead of time won't help unless you win the hacker rank thing that's sent out to anyone who applies. Beyond that, if you get into an interview, every companies wants to mitigate risk as much as possible, and even after 6 interviews with everyone and their sister getting to ask similar vapid questions, you can be rejected with an automated email. It's pretty soul sucking. If I lose my current job, which took me 2 years of misses to get, I'll probably have to leave tech
- edude03 4y ago
  > if you get into an interview, every companies wants to mitigate risk as much as possible, and even after 6 interviews with everyone and their sister getting to ask similar vapid questions, you can be rejected with an automated email. > It's pretty soul sucking. I agree, 100%. That said, I would consider filtering out those sorts of companies as part of my pre-application process. I'd want to know upfront, what the interview format is, how many interviews there are, what other candidates experience has been with the interview etc, before even considering putting together an application for the company. I'm guess (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that the major difference between the world OP and yourself describes and my experience is mostly in that it seems you two are trying to get "a job" (any job) whereas I'm saying, I find companies that I think I would enjoy (pre, during, and post interview) then tailor my application and approach specifically to that company. Otherwise, it seems unlikely that you would still end up with companies with a terrible interview process, despite doing your due diligence to filter them out
  - brailsafe 4y ago
    > I'm guess (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that the major difference between the world OP and yourself describes and my experience is mostly in that it seems you two are trying to get "a job" (any job) whereas I'm saying, I find companies that I think I would enjoy (pre, during, and post interview) then tailor my application and approach specifically to that company. In my case, you wouldn't be completely wrong or right. Both are in-part hampered by a number of factors. The first being the absolute critical mass of companies jumping on the bandwagon of these hiring practices. So among the companies you want to work for and make your resume look spiffy for, there often isn't a way to mitigate much of this, except with numbers. Second is the spotty work history, so even in the ideal case where you do bypass any of that, you don't really have much of a choice. The one area that I'd say is worthwhile to do, is always asking about the interview process. If they don't tell you, they're off your list, but the next 10 might come back and say "Hey, you look great for the role, just talk to our CTO, tmand our entire marketing department, and of course Joe over in Boston, after you complete this take-home project" which is just so much risk off loaded. I even had a guy—literally Joe from Boston—and the CEO agree to hire me, after going through all of that, and then get cold feet and back out because I'm in Canada. That was 6 months ago, and I was already on the verge of being homeless, having soent all my savings on just basic necessities between jobs. If you've got a stable or consistent work history, are well-spoken enough, technically competent, you're probably fine, such as in your case. Otherwise, it's brutal. For me personally, I don't interview anymore unless I speak to someone on the team first. That's enough to eliminate 95% of all potentials I look at, and it's only possible because for now because I'm already on a contract. Those 5% carry the rest of the risks, and there just isn't enough out there most of the time to be that selective.
  - djellybeans 4y ago
    >the major difference between the world OP and yourself describes and my experience is mostly in that it seems you two are trying to get "a job" (any job) whereas I'm saying, I find companies that I think I would enjoy I'm in the second group, for the long term goal on finding companies I'd like to work at. It's in the thread's title. Recently I chatted with a less experienced engineer, he currently works at Lyft and has had internships at Intel and Github while at college, along with related extracurriculars. That is what inspired me to make this thread. I'm trying to build a several years long plan to do what is possible for a self-taught in order to get to a similar position. So my aim right now is to plan a itinerary that is suitable from getting noticed the way reputable tech companies notice future graduates with good internships and credentials. I will have to earn my own credentials differently (not necessarily with a job), to position myself in the same way. You can think of this plan as a "school away from school" on the way to get multiple offers from reputable companies. There is a risk that it may backfire from a hiring standpoint, since this plan would probably further delay my re-entry into the workforce. However, without the ability to pass job interviews, I will have to obtain other accomplishments without work experience. Also, I'll probably cut my oldest jobs from my resume to shorten my experience.
jareds 4y ago
While most of what you said makes sense how do you find someone at the companies you're interested to talk to? I feel like unsolicited linkedin messages to developers at the company could backfire.
- edude03 4y ago
  I've found meetup, conferences and twitter work well for me personally, but I imagine you can tailor it to your particular circumstances. The only "trick" is to find the balance between pestering strangers and showing a genuine interest in the experiences of the people you talk to. > Hi you have a $COMPANY shirt on, can you get me a job would likely come off the wrong way whereas > Hey $NAME, you work at $COMPANY? I've been thinking about applying there and was curious if you could tell me what you think of it? Would likely get them to talk to you, and if things are going well, they'd likely introduce you to someone or offer to pass your contact information along.
djellybeans 4y ago
I answered some questions in a different comment, but I'll also answer these questions directly. I used Craigslist to find all my jobs from 2008-14. This probably contributed a lot to haphazard career management. Typically those CL jobs were posted by small web shops or startups looking for extra helping hands, on a tight budget. PHP, JavaScript, Ruby, no cloud. They were not really great to grow as a software dev but hindsight is 20/20. From 2015 onward, I stopped using CL and switched to LinkedIn, Indeed and sometimes AngelList and WeWorkRemotely (I had some remote exp. in 2014 already) I definitely use the 'spray and pray' with jobs and am pretty familiar with the typical pace of 1 round per week in most companies that interview me. Occasionally I get talent sourcers and managers emailing first for a job. My most recent interview was in April. 6 month full-stack dev contract for $80/hr. They approached me first. I didn't pass the first round because I didn't have enough experience. I also finished a career accelerator course last year which really helped me in organizing my job search. I could go to interviews with hardly any nerves. I fulfilled their a minimum quota of 25 applications a week for several months. Unfortunately I wasn't the best in rephrasing the best answers to interview questions. Positive points on composure and attitude, but fail in the right knowledge.

brailsafe 4y ago

It seems like this strategy is basically not viable anymore unless you do already have a lot of luck in the industry. I'm much more close to the OP, and the application cycle has become absurdly detached from what you describe. Maybe it works for some companies, idk, but genuinely even applying to jobs automatically puts you in a timed coding competition from Step 1 most of the time. Getting to speak to someone on the team is an almost laughable pipe dream, and putting in any work ahead of time won't help unless you win the hacker rank thing that's sent out to anyone who applies. Beyond that, if you get into an interview, every companies wants to mitigate risk as much as possible, and even after 6 interviews with everyone and their sister getting to ask similar vapid questions, you can be rejected with an automated email. It's pretty soul sucking. If I lose my current job, which took me 2 years of misses to get, I'll probably have to leave tech

edude03 4y ago
> if you get into an interview, every companies wants to mitigate risk as much as possible, and even after 6 interviews with everyone and their sister getting to ask similar vapid questions, you can be rejected with an automated email. > It's pretty soul sucking. I agree, 100%. That said, I would consider filtering out those sorts of companies as part of my pre-application process. I'd want to know upfront, what the interview format is, how many interviews there are, what other candidates experience has been with the interview etc, before even considering putting together an application for the company. I'm guess (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that the major difference between the world OP and yourself describes and my experience is mostly in that it seems you two are trying to get "a job" (any job) whereas I'm saying, I find companies that I think I would enjoy (pre, during, and post interview) then tailor my application and approach specifically to that company. Otherwise, it seems unlikely that you would still end up with companies with a terrible interview process, despite doing your due diligence to filter them out
- brailsafe 4y ago
  > I'm guess (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that the major difference between the world OP and yourself describes and my experience is mostly in that it seems you two are trying to get "a job" (any job) whereas I'm saying, I find companies that I think I would enjoy (pre, during, and post interview) then tailor my application and approach specifically to that company. In my case, you wouldn't be completely wrong or right. Both are in-part hampered by a number of factors. The first being the absolute critical mass of companies jumping on the bandwagon of these hiring practices. So among the companies you want to work for and make your resume look spiffy for, there often isn't a way to mitigate much of this, except with numbers. Second is the spotty work history, so even in the ideal case where you do bypass any of that, you don't really have much of a choice. The one area that I'd say is worthwhile to do, is always asking about the interview process. If they don't tell you, they're off your list, but the next 10 might come back and say "Hey, you look great for the role, just talk to our CTO, tmand our entire marketing department, and of course Joe over in Boston, after you complete this take-home project" which is just so much risk off loaded. I even had a guy—literally Joe from Boston—and the CEO agree to hire me, after going through all of that, and then get cold feet and back out because I'm in Canada. That was 6 months ago, and I was already on the verge of being homeless, having soent all my savings on just basic necessities between jobs. If you've got a stable or consistent work history, are well-spoken enough, technically competent, you're probably fine, such as in your case. Otherwise, it's brutal. For me personally, I don't interview anymore unless I speak to someone on the team first. That's enough to eliminate 95% of all potentials I look at, and it's only possible because for now because I'm already on a contract. Those 5% carry the rest of the risks, and there just isn't enough out there most of the time to be that selective.
- djellybeans 4y ago
  >the major difference between the world OP and yourself describes and my experience is mostly in that it seems you two are trying to get "a job" (any job) whereas I'm saying, I find companies that I think I would enjoy I'm in the second group, for the long term goal on finding companies I'd like to work at. It's in the thread's title. Recently I chatted with a less experienced engineer, he currently works at Lyft and has had internships at Intel and Github while at college, along with related extracurriculars. That is what inspired me to make this thread. I'm trying to build a several years long plan to do what is possible for a self-taught in order to get to a similar position. So my aim right now is to plan a itinerary that is suitable from getting noticed the way reputable tech companies notice future graduates with good internships and credentials. I will have to earn my own credentials differently (not necessarily with a job), to position myself in the same way. You can think of this plan as a "school away from school" on the way to get multiple offers from reputable companies. There is a risk that it may backfire from a hiring standpoint, since this plan would probably further delay my re-entry into the workforce. However, without the ability to pass job interviews, I will have to obtain other accomplishments without work experience. Also, I'll probably cut my oldest jobs from my resume to shorten my experience.

jareds 4y ago

While most of what you said makes sense how do you find someone at the companies you're interested to talk to? I feel like unsolicited linkedin messages to developers at the company could backfire.

edude03 4y ago
I've found meetup, conferences and twitter work well for me personally, but I imagine you can tailor it to your particular circumstances. The only "trick" is to find the balance between pestering strangers and showing a genuine interest in the experiences of the people you talk to. > Hi you have a $COMPANY shirt on, can you get me a job would likely come off the wrong way whereas > Hey $NAME, you work at $COMPANY? I've been thinking about applying there and was curious if you could tell me what you think of it? Would likely get them to talk to you, and if things are going well, they'd likely introduce you to someone or offer to pass your contact information along.

djellybeans 4y ago

I answered some questions in a different comment, but I'll also answer these questions directly. I used Craigslist to find all my jobs from 2008-14. This probably contributed a lot to haphazard career management. Typically those CL jobs were posted by small web shops or startups looking for extra helping hands, on a tight budget. PHP, JavaScript, Ruby, no cloud. They were not really great to grow as a software dev but hindsight is 20/20. From 2015 onward, I stopped using CL and switched to LinkedIn, Indeed and sometimes AngelList and WeWorkRemotely (I had some remote exp. in 2014 already) I definitely use the 'spray and pray' with jobs and am pretty familiar with the typical pace of 1 round per week in most companies that interview me. Occasionally I get talent sourcers and managers emailing first for a job. My most recent interview was in April. 6 month full-stack dev contract for $80/hr. They approached me first. I didn't pass the first round because I didn't have enough experience. I also finished a career accelerator course last year which really helped me in organizing my job search. I could go to interviews with hardly any nerves. I fulfilled their a minimum quota of 25 applications a week for several months. Unfortunately I wasn't the best in rephrasing the best answers to interview questions. Positive points on composure and attitude, but fail in the right knowledge.