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It’s like Diane’s response when Bojack Horseman asks if he’s “a good person, deep down”: “I don’t really think there is a deep down. I think we are just the th

It’s like Diane’s response when Bojack Horseman asks if he’s “a good person, deep down”: “I don’t really think there is a deep down. I think we are just the things we do.” That line really resonated with me. It stings, but it also motivates. I think if more people recognized it, they might do more good things (and/or stop being so hard on themselves if they’re already in the habit of doing good things).

dqpb 4y ago
I would say there is a deep down, with an infinite range of subtleties, but it’s ultimately discretized into the things we do. Moreover, the whole point of anything happening deep down, is that it results in us doing something.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
derbOac 4y ago
I think there's something about this article that isn't just off, but encourages a sort of psychopathy-victim dynamic. Where it oversimplifies reality, just for a few examples: What about cases where people take credit for what others do? What about when people prevent others from doing things, so as to create artificial scarcity? Are others really knowledgeable about the long-term value of something to themselves? Are actors rational? Just for instance: all of the characters in that Glengarry Glen Ross scene are white. What if that character decided blacks are worthless because no one wants to do business with a black person? Do we just passively shrug and say that's reasonable, if true? What about the long-term consequences of a workplace environment like the one in the film? Is there another way of doing it? What about the higher-order value of sales benefiting that company? I think there's a certain false wisdom about the perspective of the article that rings hollow to me at this stage. Like, it's not just cold or harsh, but false. Not too long ago there was an article posted here at HN about a sort of bias to see cynicism as intelligent, and I guess I see this as part of that pattern. I've met too many people in my life that justify rewarded narrowmindedness, bigotry, incompetence, or psychopathy in terms of "how life is". Maybe at some level that's true but to me it leads to a certain psychopathic brand of meaningless tautology in which we're all either swindlers or marks.
- escapedmoose 4y ago
  Sure, in society at large, you’re often going to go without reward for doing good things, because of some confounding nonsense. This article breezes past that. But the author seemed like they were trying to speak on a personal level, and I can see why it would resonate with a lot of people on that personal level. There are plenty of other thinkpieces out there if you want to dig into all of society’s woes.
- throwawayboise 4y ago
  It's just a movie, and it was used as hyperbole to illustrate the point that to an overwhelming degree, what matters is what you do, not (only) how you feel about it. It wasn't an endorsement of bosses being assholes or toxic work environments. Later in the piece the author discusses how feelings can be the motivator for doing good things, but the doing is the part that really matters.
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    Really matters to who? Others is who. Not the person with the feelings, clearly. Also, whether it intended it or not it is now definitely a de facto endorsement of workplace abuse.
    - happymellon 4y ago
      No one gives a shit about your feelings, except you and your mother. Your SO might, except when it starts impacting what you produce, as that is who you really are to them. Feeling bad about everyone who you kill does not stop you being a serial killer
      - __B_B__ 4y ago
        If the only reason to do anything is because other people think you should, you better hope they have empathy for you.
      - guerrilla 4y ago
astrange 4y ago
"Deep down" / "self-actualization" / "self-discovery" is leftover German Romanticism that's reappeared in things like New Age and some kinds of psychotherapy. It's not true of course; there's no soul and no real true self that's separate from the things you do. You just are your memories and the things you do. You might take a vacation and find some new hobby you like doing, but that's not because it's part of your true self.
Riverheart 4y ago
Why are people so hard are themselves? A selfish man being generous should feel good right? But he feels nothing because his instinct disagrees with his actions. He recognizes this and despairs. Who we are and what we do are not the same.

dqpb 4y ago

I would say there is a deep down, with an infinite range of subtleties, but it’s ultimately discretized into the things we do. Moreover, the whole point of anything happening deep down, is that it results in us doing something.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

derbOac 4y ago

I think there's something about this article that isn't just off, but encourages a sort of psychopathy-victim dynamic. Where it oversimplifies reality, just for a few examples: What about cases where people take credit for what others do? What about when people prevent others from doing things, so as to create artificial scarcity? Are others really knowledgeable about the long-term value of something to themselves? Are actors rational? Just for instance: all of the characters in that Glengarry Glen Ross scene are white. What if that character decided blacks are worthless because no one wants to do business with a black person? Do we just passively shrug and say that's reasonable, if true? What about the long-term consequences of a workplace environment like the one in the film? Is there another way of doing it? What about the higher-order value of sales benefiting that company? I think there's a certain false wisdom about the perspective of the article that rings hollow to me at this stage. Like, it's not just cold or harsh, but false. Not too long ago there was an article posted here at HN about a sort of bias to see cynicism as intelligent, and I guess I see this as part of that pattern. I've met too many people in my life that justify rewarded narrowmindedness, bigotry, incompetence, or psychopathy in terms of "how life is". Maybe at some level that's true but to me it leads to a certain psychopathic brand of meaningless tautology in which we're all either swindlers or marks.

escapedmoose 4y ago
Sure, in society at large, you’re often going to go without reward for doing good things, because of some confounding nonsense. This article breezes past that. But the author seemed like they were trying to speak on a personal level, and I can see why it would resonate with a lot of people on that personal level. There are plenty of other thinkpieces out there if you want to dig into all of society’s woes.
throwawayboise 4y ago
It's just a movie, and it was used as hyperbole to illustrate the point that to an overwhelming degree, what matters is what you do, not (only) how you feel about it. It wasn't an endorsement of bosses being assholes or toxic work environments. Later in the piece the author discusses how feelings can be the motivator for doing good things, but the doing is the part that really matters.
- guerrilla 4y ago
  Really matters to who? Others is who. Not the person with the feelings, clearly. Also, whether it intended it or not it is now definitely a de facto endorsement of workplace abuse.
  - happymellon 4y ago
    No one gives a shit about your feelings, except you and your mother. Your SO might, except when it starts impacting what you produce, as that is who you really are to them. Feeling bad about everyone who you kill does not stop you being a serial killer
    - __B_B__ 4y ago
      If the only reason to do anything is because other people think you should, you better hope they have empathy for you.
    - guerrilla 4y ago

astrange 4y ago

"Deep down" / "self-actualization" / "self-discovery" is leftover German Romanticism that's reappeared in things like New Age and some kinds of psychotherapy. It's not true of course; there's no soul and no real true self that's separate from the things you do. You just are your memories and the things you do. You might take a vacation and find some new hobby you like doing, but that's not because it's part of your true self.

Riverheart 4y ago

Why are people so hard are themselves? A selfish man being generous should feel good right? But he feels nothing because his instinct disagrees with his actions. He recognizes this and despairs. Who we are and what we do are not the same.