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I am not trying to start an argument, but you are aware that Google was working on Android for quite some time right? I own an iPhone (3GS) and I work with bot

by jbm 15y ago

I am not trying to start an argument, but you are aware that Google was working on Android for quite some time right? I own an iPhone (3GS) and I work with both Android and iPhones, but the programming experience is completely different; it is very difficult to see it as anything more than a convergent evolution. No doubt the emphasis on touch came from the iPhone, but beyond that, I don't really see the similarities. This Judas mythology that has sprung up around the Google / Apple relationship doesn't fit the facts as I've see them thus far. It doesn't make sense to put oneself into Steve Jobs' shoes when Steve Jobs was wrong / emotional (unless we want to understand why he was wrong). And he was wrong, unless you believe a cackling Google CTO returned to his office one day and refocused the company on putting out the Android OS to fight with iOS. Consumer beliefs have very little basis in reality. If you asked me when I was 5 years old, I would have said Transformers copied Go-bots, eventhough Go-Bots had been released as a toyline and an animated series well before Transformers. I was wrong - and I'd be a fool to get mad over that years later when the facts were clear. -- The comment was deleted, but as the original poster mentioned the importance of context, I have reproduced his or her comment below. I don't have any malice towards the poster in question, I think it is a prevailing attitude and one I wish to challenge (or be appropriately chastised for my own mistaken perceptions) --- I see a lot of folks say, "Jobs is a hypocrite, Apple has stolen lots of stuff." This continues to be edifying only on a superficial level. Context continues to matter. You may believe that software patents are bad. You may even believe that patents are bad. But please don't pretend that some people's use of innovative ideas aren't more important and more credit worthy than others. The public doesn't believe this and you probably don't either, if you think carefully about it. The world is a chaotic, ambiguous place, but that hasn't prevented us from judging whether entities in specified circumstances have stolen ideas from others. For example, I understand that Carlos Mencia is derided in the comedy community for being a joke thief. No one believes that you shouldn't be able to stand on the shoulders of giants. For example, the claim that Jobs is hypocritical because OS X is based on BSD is a non-starter. BSD was used with permission, legally and morally. Put yourself in Jobs' shoes. You spend every waking moment to bring something wonderful and new to the world. You pour your sweat and love and passion into it. You trust people. And one of the people you trust starts competing against you directly AND copying your work down to a pretty fine detail. This wouldn't bother you? We're not talking about Robin Hood here. We're not talking about a charity or not for profit corporation with a transparent open source project. We're talking about another company taking your ideas to make money for themselves. If you ask a normal person on the street who copied whom in the smartphone business, they'll say Android copied iPhone. And they'll be right. And that's why Jobs was mad.

Steko 15y ago
"Google was working on Android for quite some time right?" Yeah it looked like blackberry. http://www.quora.com/Android-OS/What-did-Android-look-like-before-the-iPhone-was-unveiled http://www.quora.com/Android-OS/What-did-Android-look-like-b... "it is very difficult to see it as anything more than a convergent evolution." Viewing it as "covergent evolution" is a stretch. Blockbuster new product comes out, everyone rushes to copy them. That's exactly what happened. "It doesn't make sense to put oneself into Steve Jobs' shoes when Steve Jobs was ... emotional " OTOH it does make sense to recognize that he was emotional before passing judgment on him as though he uttered those same words in a emotion free context years later.
- jbm 15y ago
  I wasn't passing judgment on Steve Jobs, I just think he was tangled in his product and lashing out. I've heard the Blackberry thing before; that's why I mentioned the touch screen that was no-doubt inspired by Apple. (I had seen touch screen phones in Singapore long before Apple had one, but that's neither here nor there). Once touch was settled on as the main input source, the convergence of design decisions was almost a certainty. Calling Android a clone of iOS on that fact alone belies the fact that the underlying programming (Intents, etc..) feels completely different. The claim that the UI feel is similar is fair, but it's not as if we have completely different steering wheels on different cars. Standing on the shoulders of giants, great artists steal, etc.. I was being charitable by describing Jobs as emotional months after the fact, thus clouding his judgment. The alternative reading was that he was being purposefully dense, or intellectually dishonest.
- zmmmmm 15y ago
  > Viewing it as "covergent evolution" is a stretch. Blockbuster new product comes out, everyone rushes to copy them. That's exactly what happened. I guess it's a subtle distinction, but there's a difference between just copying from Apple because you don't have any ideas of your own and responding to the consumer demand that came about due to Apple's influence. People wanted multitouch devices. Google didn't need to look to Apple to know that, you could derive it independently by doing a simple consumer survey of what smartphone consumers wanted. Google added what people wanted and brought an OS to the market that had that and a whole lot of innovative features that the iPhone didn't. That people look backwards and only see the features inherited from the iPhone, but Android was years ahead of iOS in many other respects, some of which persist to this day.

by jbm 15y ago

Steko 15y ago

"Google was working on Android for quite some time right?" Yeah it looked like blackberry. http://www.quora.com/Android-OS/What-did-Android-look-like-before-the-iPhone-was-unveiled http://www.quora.com/Android-OS/What-did-Android-look-like-b... "it is very difficult to see it as anything more than a convergent evolution." Viewing it as "covergent evolution" is a stretch. Blockbuster new product comes out, everyone rushes to copy them. That's exactly what happened. "It doesn't make sense to put oneself into Steve Jobs' shoes when Steve Jobs was ... emotional " OTOH it does make sense to recognize that he was emotional before passing judgment on him as though he uttered those same words in a emotion free context years later.

jbm 15y ago
I wasn't passing judgment on Steve Jobs, I just think he was tangled in his product and lashing out. I've heard the Blackberry thing before; that's why I mentioned the touch screen that was no-doubt inspired by Apple. (I had seen touch screen phones in Singapore long before Apple had one, but that's neither here nor there). Once touch was settled on as the main input source, the convergence of design decisions was almost a certainty. Calling Android a clone of iOS on that fact alone belies the fact that the underlying programming (Intents, etc..) feels completely different. The claim that the UI feel is similar is fair, but it's not as if we have completely different steering wheels on different cars. Standing on the shoulders of giants, great artists steal, etc.. I was being charitable by describing Jobs as emotional months after the fact, thus clouding his judgment. The alternative reading was that he was being purposefully dense, or intellectually dishonest.
zmmmmm 15y ago
> Viewing it as "covergent evolution" is a stretch. Blockbuster new product comes out, everyone rushes to copy them. That's exactly what happened. I guess it's a subtle distinction, but there's a difference between just copying from Apple because you don't have any ideas of your own and responding to the consumer demand that came about due to Apple's influence. People wanted multitouch devices. Google didn't need to look to Apple to know that, you could derive it independently by doing a simple consumer survey of what smartphone consumers wanted. Google added what people wanted and brought an OS to the market that had that and a whole lot of innovative features that the iPhone didn't. That people look backwards and only see the features inherited from the iPhone, but Android was years ahead of iOS in many other respects, some of which persist to this day.