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Can someone explain to me why exactly female representation in gaming is important / the lack thereof is a problem? Is there any particular merit in being assoc

Can someone explain to me why exactly female representation in gaming is important / the lack thereof is a problem? Is there any particular merit in being associated with and represented in the field of gaming? Would the world be a better place if males and females were both to be exactly equally well represented in the field of gaming, whatever that means?

whatshisface 4y ago
Back in the late 2000s a lot of people were saying that casual gaming was, as an expansion outside of the male 20-something DOOM fan demographic, caused by women entering the game industry and working on things that male 20-something software engineers wouldn't think was enjoyable. There's a lot of gender essentialism in that way of telling the story, but there's also a lot of gender essentialism in the standard marketing playbook on target demographics more generally, and it seems to be making money for them. There is some argument to be made that it is good to have someone that is at least remotely contained within the target demographic involved when creative decisions are being made, at the very least to avoid having to send every little thing out to a focus group. That is for example why metal bands are usually made up of people who like metal, and why session musicians who are jobbing it don't end up doing a lot of songwriting.
dybber 4y ago
The lack of representation might mean that fewer games are developed targeting women/girls, which means that there’s potentialet a lot of unexplored territory.
jrajav 4y ago
This article isn't even arguing anything about female representation, it's just a historical piece. The way you bring up it being a problem and questioning its merits seems vaguely incendiary in this context and makes me wonder if you're actually interested in the answer. I'm not gonna assume what your thoughts are on the matter, but I will suggest that if you're actually interested in an answer to your questions and not just starting a discussion that might or might not be fruitful for anyone, your answers will be best found doing earnest research and especially talking to real people who are affected by a lack of representation.
axolotlgod 4y ago
There is a video [0] I love that explains an argument for this well. The more people you have participating and iterating in a field, and more generally in life, the better that field/life ultimately becomes. Allowing more women in the video game field will ultimately make more satisfying and novel games for you and for everyone else. Modern video games are interactive art. People have emotional experiences from finishing games with stories and performances that speak to them. Part of this emotion comes from a deep understanding of the "lived experience" of people. There are parts of the lived experience that drastically differ for women and men, on the whole. Does that mean that men couldn't write a story that women find powerful and challenging? Of course not. But men aren't going to fully grok the little details of how society treats women, which means a lot of relevant themes relevant go unexplored if there aren't women on creative teams. Diversity of experience translates into diversity of ideas. Hell, I always thought that was a strength for FOSS, after all. --- [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvskMHn0sqQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvskMHn0sqQ - Kurzgesagt
jlg23 4y ago
So that kids can grow up and find role models (or just heros to identify with) of any gender, skin color or body image. No more "oh, really?" when a woman is introduced as a scientist, fire fighter, pilot or as working in any other "male" domain.
WalterGR 4y ago
Because of capitalism. Capitalism abhors a vacuum. Addressing under-served markets means more money.
dahart 4y ago
Maybe ask yourself the same question using different categories and see if you can approach an answer from multiple angles. Why should males be represented in games? Do only men play games? Is there “merit” to male representation in games, and if so what is that exactly? The phrasing of your question is revealing some assumptions you’re making, isn’t it? Why is it important for women to have representation in business or education or politics? What things have happened over the years that have lead to changes in the amount of representation? Which direction has it been going? Why is it important that blind people are represented in city design, or in browser design? Why is accessibility important? Why is it important for black people to have representation in the US? Why is it important for people to vote in a Blue State or a Red State? Or maybe ask some women! See what your mom or sister says in response to that question. Ask some local teenagers why they play games and whether the girls all want to play only Call of Duty forever. > Would the world be a better place if males and females were both to be exactly equally well represented in the field of gaming, whatever that means? How about instead of emphasizing “exactly equally well represented” since that seems a bit loaded, we focus on simply being better represented? Whether we’re talking about female story protagonists, or we’re talking about female programmers, all categories appear to have visible discrepancies due to known cultural biases today. If we know that there are cultural barriers to women, is it reasonable to worry first about just making sure those go away, rather than get hung up on “exactly equally”? Did the world become a better place when women gained the right to vote, or to own land? Yes, it did. Will the world become a better place when women face less discrimination than they do now, even if it’s a small amount? Yes, it will.
- wolverine876 4y ago
  > Or maybe ask some women! See what your mom or sister says in response to that question. Or your daughter.
- imiric 4y ago
  You might want to ask the same question for occupations where males are the minority: nurses, childcare workers, HR, etc. Will those fields be somehow better with more male representation? Are men being discriminated against joining those professions? Or is the gender disparity that exists in pretty much all professions a product of our own differences in interest, social predisposition, or any number of different factors? I'm not downplaying the discrimination women have historically faced and continue to face in the workplace, and the wage gap that still exists. But maybe we don't need to label any gender disparity as a social injustice that needs to be corrected. FWIW, I don't think video games are a medium where the gender of the creator matters much. Like any creative art form, what matters is how the consumer experiences it. Do you care about the gender of the painter, or about the painting itself? Do video games really need to be created by a specific gender to be enjoyed by a specific gender? Why is gender even part of the conversation when video games are a creative outlet only limited by our imagination? With how popular games are today, and how easy it is for anyone to start creating them, what exactly are those cultural barriers you talk about?

whatshisface 4y ago

Back in the late 2000s a lot of people were saying that casual gaming was, as an expansion outside of the male 20-something DOOM fan demographic, caused by women entering the game industry and working on things that male 20-something software engineers wouldn't think was enjoyable. There's a lot of gender essentialism in that way of telling the story, but there's also a lot of gender essentialism in the standard marketing playbook on target demographics more generally, and it seems to be making money for them. There is some argument to be made that it is good to have someone that is at least remotely contained within the target demographic involved when creative decisions are being made, at the very least to avoid having to send every little thing out to a focus group. That is for example why metal bands are usually made up of people who like metal, and why session musicians who are jobbing it don't end up doing a lot of songwriting.

dybber 4y ago

The lack of representation might mean that fewer games are developed targeting women/girls, which means that there’s potentialet a lot of unexplored territory.

jrajav 4y ago

This article isn't even arguing anything about female representation, it's just a historical piece. The way you bring up it being a problem and questioning its merits seems vaguely incendiary in this context and makes me wonder if you're actually interested in the answer. I'm not gonna assume what your thoughts are on the matter, but I will suggest that if you're actually interested in an answer to your questions and not just starting a discussion that might or might not be fruitful for anyone, your answers will be best found doing earnest research and especially talking to real people who are affected by a lack of representation.

axolotlgod 4y ago

There is a video [0] I love that explains an argument for this well. The more people you have participating and iterating in a field, and more generally in life, the better that field/life ultimately becomes. Allowing more women in the video game field will ultimately make more satisfying and novel games for you and for everyone else. Modern video games are interactive art. People have emotional experiences from finishing games with stories and performances that speak to them. Part of this emotion comes from a deep understanding of the "lived experience" of people. There are parts of the lived experience that drastically differ for women and men, on the whole. Does that mean that men couldn't write a story that women find powerful and challenging? Of course not. But men aren't going to fully grok the little details of how society treats women, which means a lot of relevant themes relevant go unexplored if there aren't women on creative teams. Diversity of experience translates into diversity of ideas. Hell, I always thought that was a strength for FOSS, after all. --- [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvskMHn0sqQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvskMHn0sqQ - Kurzgesagt

jlg23 4y ago

So that kids can grow up and find role models (or just heros to identify with) of any gender, skin color or body image. No more "oh, really?" when a woman is introduced as a scientist, fire fighter, pilot or as working in any other "male" domain.

WalterGR 4y ago

Because of capitalism. Capitalism abhors a vacuum. Addressing under-served markets means more money.

dahart 4y ago

Maybe ask yourself the same question using different categories and see if you can approach an answer from multiple angles. Why should males be represented in games? Do only men play games? Is there “merit” to male representation in games, and if so what is that exactly? The phrasing of your question is revealing some assumptions you’re making, isn’t it? Why is it important for women to have representation in business or education or politics? What things have happened over the years that have lead to changes in the amount of representation? Which direction has it been going? Why is it important that blind people are represented in city design, or in browser design? Why is accessibility important? Why is it important for black people to have representation in the US? Why is it important for people to vote in a Blue State or a Red State? Or maybe ask some women! See what your mom or sister says in response to that question. Ask some local teenagers why they play games and whether the girls all want to play only Call of Duty forever. > Would the world be a better place if males and females were both to be exactly equally well represented in the field of gaming, whatever that means? How about instead of emphasizing “exactly equally well represented” since that seems a bit loaded, we focus on simply being better represented? Whether we’re talking about female story protagonists, or we’re talking about female programmers, all categories appear to have visible discrepancies due to known cultural biases today. If we know that there are cultural barriers to women, is it reasonable to worry first about just making sure those go away, rather than get hung up on “exactly equally”? Did the world become a better place when women gained the right to vote, or to own land? Yes, it did. Will the world become a better place when women face less discrimination than they do now, even if it’s a small amount? Yes, it will.

wolverine876 4y ago
> Or maybe ask some women! See what your mom or sister says in response to that question. Or your daughter.
imiric 4y ago
You might want to ask the same question for occupations where males are the minority: nurses, childcare workers, HR, etc. Will those fields be somehow better with more male representation? Are men being discriminated against joining those professions? Or is the gender disparity that exists in pretty much all professions a product of our own differences in interest, social predisposition, or any number of different factors? I'm not downplaying the discrimination women have historically faced and continue to face in the workplace, and the wage gap that still exists. But maybe we don't need to label any gender disparity as a social injustice that needs to be corrected. FWIW, I don't think video games are a medium where the gender of the creator matters much. Like any creative art form, what matters is how the consumer experiences it. Do you care about the gender of the painter, or about the painting itself? Do video games really need to be created by a specific gender to be enjoyed by a specific gender? Why is gender even part of the conversation when video games are a creative outlet only limited by our imagination? With how popular games are today, and how easy it is for anyone to start creating them, what exactly are those cultural barriers you talk about?