4 ms·

Would be reasonable to expand that to "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism against trans people". Hate is a pretty high bar perhaps? The etymology of the

Would be reasonable to expand that to "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism against trans people". Hate is a pretty high bar perhaps? The etymology of the -isms and the -phobias is unfortunate. But the <group of people>-phobias are not really about fear.

rendall 4y ago
I agree that expansion is reasonable.
renox 4y ago
Discrimination is a fuzzy word.. Is-it discrimination to forbid trans-women to participate in the same sports category as bio-women?
- thomasfedb 4y ago
  A blanket ban would be I think. Having a blanket ban demonstrates that you are judging transgender people on their transgender status alone, rather than making an evidence-based assessment of whether a particular athlete has an unfair advantage. The International Olympic Committee, for example, has a framework for precisely this (you can read it here, it's pretty easy going: https://stillmed.olympics.com/media/Documents/News/2021/11/IOC-Framework-Fairness-Inclusion-Non-discrimination-2021.pdf https://stillmed.olympics.com/media/Documents/News/2021/11/I... ) and I think it demonstrates really well that they've put a good amount of thought into being fair. I think you'd have a hard time saying that the IOC framework is discrimination.
  - foogazi 4y ago
    > A blanket ban would be I think. There is a blanket ban on men participating in women’s sports - is that discrimination ?
  - skelpie_6000 4y ago
    > Having a blanket ban demonstrates that you are judging transgender people on their transgender status alone, No, by their sex - just like everyone else.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Discrimination is a fuzzy word.. No, it's not. > Is-it discrimination to forbid trans-women to participate in the same sports category as bio-women? It is absolutely discrimination to discriminate between cisgender and transgender competitors. Whether it is acceptable discrimination is a value question, whether it is legal or permissible discrimination depends on the relevant law and rule framework, but it is unmistakably discrimination.
  - rendall 4y ago
    So, by this use of this word, it is discrimination to prevent (non trans) male athletes from competing in female sports.
    - robonerd 4y ago
      Yes. That's an example of discrimination that society has mostly concluded to be constructive.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      Yes, absolutely. Any time you distinguish treatment between different categories it is discrimination. That's what the word means.
      - thomasfedb 4y ago
        That is one usage of the word. But we should not pretend that the word has only one use. Chuck "discriminate" into Google and you'll get two definitions: > 1. recognize a distinction; differentiate. > 2. make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people. I was referring to the latter use.
        rendall 4y ago
        Yeah, agreed. People conflating these two meanings of the word just confuse the discussion.

rendall 4y ago

I agree that expansion is reasonable.

renox 4y ago

Discrimination is a fuzzy word.. Is-it discrimination to forbid trans-women to participate in the same sports category as bio-women?

thomasfedb 4y ago
A blanket ban would be I think. Having a blanket ban demonstrates that you are judging transgender people on their transgender status alone, rather than making an evidence-based assessment of whether a particular athlete has an unfair advantage. The International Olympic Committee, for example, has a framework for precisely this (you can read it here, it's pretty easy going: https://stillmed.olympics.com/media/Documents/News/2021/11/IOC-Framework-Fairness-Inclusion-Non-discrimination-2021.pdf https://stillmed.olympics.com/media/Documents/News/2021/11/I... ) and I think it demonstrates really well that they've put a good amount of thought into being fair. I think you'd have a hard time saying that the IOC framework is discrimination.
- foogazi 4y ago
  > A blanket ban would be I think. There is a blanket ban on men participating in women’s sports - is that discrimination ?
- skelpie_6000 4y ago
  > Having a blanket ban demonstrates that you are judging transgender people on their transgender status alone, No, by their sex - just like everyone else.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dragonwriter 4y ago
> Discrimination is a fuzzy word.. No, it's not. > Is-it discrimination to forbid trans-women to participate in the same sports category as bio-women? It is absolutely discrimination to discriminate between cisgender and transgender competitors. Whether it is acceptable discrimination is a value question, whether it is legal or permissible discrimination depends on the relevant law and rule framework, but it is unmistakably discrimination.
- rendall 4y ago
  So, by this use of this word, it is discrimination to prevent (non trans) male athletes from competing in female sports.
  - robonerd 4y ago
    Yes. That's an example of discrimination that society has mostly concluded to be constructive.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    Yes, absolutely. Any time you distinguish treatment between different categories it is discrimination. That's what the word means.
    - thomasfedb 4y ago
      That is one usage of the word. But we should not pretend that the word has only one use. Chuck "discriminate" into Google and you'll get two definitions: > 1. recognize a distinction; differentiate. > 2. make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people. I was referring to the latter use.
      - rendall 4y ago
        Yeah, agreed. People conflating these two meanings of the word just confuse the discussion.